What should have happened?

[UltimateVUFan]

I'm still not convinced Manjon actually shoved Black. It looked like a helluva flop by Black.

It was pretty clear on tv. Because of the way that he pushed him even though it was not a hard push, he was basically falling over QMB's legs. Which sort of tripped him I think. I'm not saying there wasn't a bit of flop in there too. There could've been.

I've looked at the play several times and just don't see anything egregious enough from the 6-0 Manjon to have pushed the 6-7 Black hard enough. The way Black flailed his arms you'd think he'd been hit by a Ford F150.

All this is beside the point, however. The worst of the brouhaha was the fact that Black went unpenalized and undisciplined for his show in front of the Vanderbilt bench while waiting to shoot the technicals.

This.
Black earned a spot in VU infamy, as far as I’m concerned. And I’m glad that a$$clown got shut down and dominated offensively in the second half. The player response to his shenanigans merits a ton of kudos.

[commadore]

There was a guard at Mississippi State in the late '70s who we booed unmercifully every time he touched the ball. He was a real hot dog and we booed him for two years. I think he was the first one treated like that, but certainly not the last.

[HarpoMarx]

Tom Schuberth was the 1st one I remember getting the BOO treatment everytime he touched the ball. Probably happened for 3 years. Can't remember the details anymore, but it seemed he was involved in an altercation or had committed a hard foul. Seems it was Charles Davis, the last player on those teams you would want to antagonize.

[alathIN]

I agree with cc. I doubt that the officials could have stepped in in time after Black's taunt of QMB to prevent the actions of Ezra and of Davis. Then probably no T on Stack, and no additional taunting of Black toward the Vandy bench (nothing to cry about). Black showed himself to be a first-class jerk in all this and is now and member of my all-time Vandy opponent jerk team -- a high honor indeed. The Vandy opponent jerk team might be a good topic for a future thread.

I nominate Ray Mears.

Matt Walsh
Jaokim Noah
Renaldo Balkman

DeMarcus Cousins

[Hutch37]

yes tom Schuberth was the first one that came to mind- really wish I could remember what he did to get the crowd against him.
I remember yelling a lot at Dan Federman but dont remember what he did either.
Stallings ripping the ball away from Noah was a highlight

[geeznotagain]

There was a guard at Mississippi State in the late '70s who we booed unmercifully every time he touched the ball. He was a real hot dog and we booed him for two years. I think he was the first one treated like that, but certainly not the last.

You may be thinking of Marshall Henderson, who played for Ole miss rather than Miss. State. Hit a 35-40 footer once at Memorial to send a game into OT.

[geeznotagain]

All this is beside the point, however. The worst of the brouhaha was the fact that Black went unpenalized and undisciplined for his show in front of the Vanderbilt bench while waiting to shoot the technicals.

I'm pretty sure it was Council IV who shot the 6 technicals. Black shot the 1st (of 7) free throws for the common foul on QMB -- which was a borderline call itself and could have been called a charge IMO. You probably knew that. Your post kinda implied to me Black shot the techicals.

[AuricGoldfinger]

There was a guard at Mississippi State in the late '70s who we booed unmercifully every time he touched the ball. He was a real hot dog and we booed him for two years. I think he was the first one treated like that, but certainly not the last.

Are you thinking of Ray White?

[VUaskew]

There was a guard at Mississippi State in the late '70s who we booed unmercifully every time he touched the ball. He was a real hot dog and we booed him for two years. I think he was the first one treated like that, but certainly not the last.

Are you thinking of Ray White?

No, it was Schuberth as I stated previously. He dared to square off against Charles Davis. He never forgot about it for the next couple years.

[commadore]

There was a guard at Mississippi State in the late '70s who we booed unmercifully every time he touched the ball. He was a real hot dog and we booed him for two years. I think he was the first one treated like that, but certainly not the last.

Are you thinking of Ray White?

No, it was Schuberth as I stated previously. He dared to square off against Charles Davis. He never forgot about it for the next couple years.

I looked him up and you are correct, it was Schuberth.

[jpmando]

Honorable mention: Stu Aberdeen from UT. Does that name jog any memories?

[nyyankeeDore]

Honorable mention: Stu Aberdeen from UT. Does that name jog any memories?

He was Ray Mears's assistant, in charge of recruiting and unicycle maintenance.

[bornadore57]

Honorable mention: Stu Aberdeen from UT. Does that name jog any memories?

Must admit, getting my first job out of college involved an interview with Coach Mears. I sat in his office next to his "Big Orange" tree as we discussed the opportunity. Never mentioned to him that my two favorite teams were Vanderbilt and whoever-is-playing-ut. Got the job and heard Coach Mears mention the work ethic of Stu Aberdeen more than once as he attempted to motivate coaches. Said Stu worked hard to make him look good. Of course, Stu had died by this time - probably from overworking.

[memphisVUalum]

I'm still not convinced Manjon actually shoved Black. It looked like a helluva flop by Black.

It was pretty clear on tv. Because of the way that he pushed him even though it was not a hard push, he was basically falling over QMB's legs. Which sort of tripped him I think. I'm not saying there wasn't a bit of flop in there too. There could've been.

I've looked at the play several times and just don't see anything egregious enough from the 6-0 Manjon to have pushed the 6-7 Black hard enough. The way Black flailed his arms you'd think he'd been hit by a Ford F150.

All this is beside the point, however. The worst of the brouhaha was the fact that Black went unpenalized and undisciplined for his show in front of the Vanderbilt bench while waiting to shoot the technicals.

As for that being beside the point, I agree. It is others than me who keep making it such a point that somehow the guy falling wasn't pushed or even touched by Ezra. All I I did was say what I and others I know saw clearly. You can still see it on ESPN. I have VU-gold colored glasses but there is a limit to how far I take that.

I have said before and it was clear Black taunted and that was the issue, (not the part Ezra did). The taunt mocking got our team amped up to come back and answer it on the scoreboard.

I also don't think it's clear Ezra intended him to fall but he pushed him in a direction that was towards Quentin by mistake and he fell over him. Look at where Quentin's legs are in relation to where Ezra pushed him. Wouldn't think he intended him to fall but why push him in the direction of Quentin.

The whole attempt to do anything useful there went wrong, probably by accident -- and the refs evidently couldn't see the falling down part was likely not intended by Manjon, but it all helped the team win in the end because of Black's foolish crybaby face mocking later.

I never thought Ezra pushed him hard. He just pushed him deliberately (not hard) and the guy tripped because he was pushed over Quentin instead of pushed away from Quentin. I also think where the guy landed as far as Quentin's feet had to do with where he was pushed and that part was accidental too but walking over Quentin was deliberate - a taunt - and pushing him was deliberate.

Anybody can fall if you push them over someone else so putting his hands on him was not a good idea. It was not something Ezra could probably see that he was going to wind up tripping over Quentin, who was moving to get up and out of the way. The refs couldn't see that because they just looked at where Manjon's hands went.

If you push someone and they fall, even though you didn't expect that, and then seconds later you get separated from arguing with another player that isn't always going to go well.

It doesn't mean Manjon thought he was going to fall when he did it but doing it at all put him in a position for that to happen. Players, including ours, fall all the time when they get off balance and someone administers a slight push. I doubt Ezra realized he was going to fall because he couldn't see where Quentin was moving at the time he pushed Black toward him.

Black's arms were not flailing - he was holding them out to the side in the fake "I'm innocent of any fouling" way. Black's big annoyance was taunting twice two different ways.

Even one taunt is supposed to be a technical. Black probably should have gotten a first for standing over Quentin and a second one while he was about to shoot free throws for doing that crying face. I am not trying to lobby on behalf of Black for goodness sake. I'm trying to state what I saw and not pretend I saw something else.