Overall, OOC was essentially a disaster

[Jason94]

With the loss to NCSU, we find ourselves 5-6 with two games left against weak opponents, the best case scenario is 7-6 with zero wins against good opponents. This last game was the closest we've played against one of the good teams on our schedule, though perhaps Pitt will play themselves into a good win position. Add to that three losses to teams that require good wins to balance out from a tournament resume standpoint, and we leave non-conference play with nothing good on our resume.

This bad news in the results category is added to the fact that we approached the OOC season with the though that we had an experienced team that wants to win immediately, as opposed to seeing this as a rebuilding year following the loss of Pippen, and purposely kept our top freshmen on the bench, giving players like Dort and Shelby almost zero development to this point. Against competition like that which we might see in conference play, Dort has played a total of 7 minutes and Shelby zero. So while they might be an integral part of next year's team (assuming that they don't enter the transfer portal from a complete inability to get any meaningful playing time), I don't know how we are able to determine that.

The most frustrating part is that we probably have enough total talent to be a good team this season. I also am really shocked to think that Dort and Shelby are so unready when we are getting a total of 8 points, 2 ast, 0 assists and 4 rebounds in 45 minutes from Thomas and QMB. It wasn't as though Robbins was that great either, scoring 10 points on 11 shots and grabbing 4 boards in 26 minutes.

That is not to say that this season is devoid of positives. Stute has actually improved his three point shooting and the real issue is that we aren't able to get him more open looks; Colin Smith, the one freshman who has played has looked pretty good overall - he doesn't look like a star but probably is a starter next season if Wright doesn't return. Lawrence has improved from last season - he is not a #1 guy but can get some buckets when he needs to and could be better if he cut back on his TO's. Robbins looks healthy and is a legit SEC center if not a dynamic one. He shoots from outside a bit too often for his success rate, but largely play inside and has made 63% of those shots and drawn a good number of fouls.

But overall there is not a lot of reason to think we are going to make a massive improvement like we did last season, as the improvement came largely because Robbins and Chatman were made available and were massive improvements over Frank/Mann and Thomas. This season theoretically Dort and Shelby would be large improvements over Thomas/QMB, but they aren't playing because the coach doesn't perceive them to be so. I think we can get more than we have from a healthy Wright, but it is foolish to think he is going to be a 16-18 ppg scorer on a consistent basis. Of the players who have been a part of our rotation, I don't see anyone who is playing significantly below their ceiling (except for Wright), and therefore it is difficult to see us winning the 11 or 12 games in SEC play to realistically think we have a shot at postseason play.

[utahozzie]

I Like Stack as a guy, and respect the time he’s invested in the program but in my opinion he’s treated this program too much like a pro org than college. 25 coaches and administrators. Young guys sit the bench, one on one style, doesn’t call timeouts. It’s very nba ish.

This team could’ve been better even if not tourney worthy but that is lost barring a miraculous turnaround.

You have to have a system or elite players to win at vandy and even then nothing guaranteed.

No reason for smith Dort and Shelby to not be playing a ton moving forward. Otherwise those guys are gone. todays college commitments mean nothing. They’re 4 and 5 star players. They expect to play. Jerry has recruited wel but if you can’t keep those kids it’s meaningless

[alathIN]

It's really hard to imagine Shelby could be worse than the backcourt play we are getting. Even if he came in and his defense was as bad as Thomas and his offense was as bad as Manjon and he turned the ball over like Lawrence, there would at least be the hope that his ceiling is higher and he'll improve with more PT.
If he's so bad as to not get as much PT as the other members of a weak backcourt, he must be really bad indeed.

I hate to say it, but this season looks like a failure to me.

[Jason94]

It's really hard to imagine Shelby could be worse than the backcourt play we are getting. Even if he came in and his defense was as bad as Thomas and his offense was as bad as Manjon and he turned the ball over like Lawrence, there would at least be the hope that his ceiling is higher and he'll improve with more PT.
If he's so bad as to not get as much PT as the other members of a weak backcourt, he must be really bad indeed.

I hate to say it, but this season looks like a failure to me.

It is from the standpoint of us having a chance of making the tournament, which barring some unforeseen miracle is not something in our cards. But we do have a chance to develop the talent that is in the freshman class and a large reason so many of us were excited about the future of the program under CJS.

The irony (perhaps) is that as time goes along, CJS appears to have several of the same attributes that CKS had - stubborness, strong development of players, hoarding of TO's, teams that were generally better as the season wore on, public outbursts. I was hoping at least for the same results from a win/loss standpoint or some major wins against top programs as well. I do hope that he sees that even though Shelby and Dort might not be ready in his eyes, they will not have a better opportunity to learn the hard way than they will over the next three months. They will have difficulty having a sophomore jump if they don't play at all as freshmen.

[Nashmann]

Surprised Shelby & Dort haven't gotten more minutes... the same with Dia. I have seen a couple of times Dia make a great move with back-to-basket. The problem he seems to want to play outside. MOVE HIM!!!! Use his size and talent there!!! Prove yourself there, then can shoot outside when needed.

Wright needs to move on after this year. I think he has reached his ceiling and passion. Maybe still hurt some but we can do better with freshman and portal.

[cc11316]

I want to provide some kind of insight or valuable input as I certainly have my opinions but this is probably the least engaged I have been with Vandy basketball since I started following them at a very young age (so like 35-40 years). I have tuned in to pretty much every game but found myself easily distracted and landing on DVR or Netflix/Amazon kind of programming by the end of games. It's just not that fun to watch anymore.

I guess if I do have a comment, my favorite player has turned out to be Stute because he seems to be the only one who can shoot consistently. It's nerve-racking to watch them run that forced offense as I just hope they get a shot and don't turn it over but definitely difficult to watch. Defensively, they are better than offensively (not saying much) but I can fast forward through most games and their score won't change for many minutes (sometimes through the 4-minute TV breaks). Idk, I'm just not finding it that interesting anymore. Maybe playing the freshmen more like some suggested or perhaps someone other than Stute learning to shoot would increase my interest but we'll see.

[EagleDore]

It is very disappointing. Agree that we have some talent which is not all being used. The guys playing are playing hard, but like Jason says, they're all close to their ceilings with the exception maybe of Wright. I don't like the "motion" CJS is using. For example, our guys need great screens for clear, set shots, but I don't see it. Our center is out of position because he screens out top and doesn't get back for rebounds when we jack up a shot. For the guys we are playing, I don't see our system setting up the team for the best success. Did we get any benefits from our overseas trip? I expected a more polished team and better performance coming off a "bump" from that. It's going to be a tough SEC season.

[utahozzie]

I think people need to brace themselves for a really ugly conference record. Not Bryce drew bad but close

[charlestonalum]

I think people need to brace themselves for a really ugly conference record. Not Bryce drew bad but close

Maybe just maybe our conference schedule will be as unexpectedly good as the OOC has been bad. Otherwise we will all be looking forward to baseball. The perennial Vanderbilt situation.

[frstev17]

It used to be that midway through football season we were looking forward to basketball. Now we have to look all the way to baseball. Sad…

[commadore]

I think people need to brace themselves for a really ugly conference record. Not Bryce drew bad but close

Maybe just maybe our conference schedule will be as unexpectedly good as the OOC has been bad. Otherwise we will all be looking forward to baseball. The perennial Vanderbilt situation.

I am already looking forward to baseball, but am worried we won't have any hitters.

[utahozzie]

You can tell the season isn’t going well when there is little to no buzz on message boards or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe one day Memorial will rock again….I sure miss those days

[VUaskew]

Stack may or may not get it done, but I do believe there has been (or at least I thought, not so sure with playing time being what it is) an uptick in recruiting the last two classes (including 2023). I think CJS sees this as a long-haul mindset more so than some of us might.

Dort needs Q's minutes. Love Q, but has he hit his ceiling?

If Jordan can't go, he needs not to play in favor of others. Otherwise he's hurting the team. If Trey can't hit the side of the barn (although better last two games), Shelby or Lewis need more time.

got no issue this far with the production of Liam, Lawrence, and Stute. 50-50 on Ezra. 50-50 on Trey, although I can tell improvement in ball-handling and defense.

Maybe this will pan out in SEC play, but if we go 9-9 in the league, that puts us at 16 wins assuming we handle Alabama A&M/State and SELA.

Dancin' ain't happening this year. I can be happy if I see marked improvement the rest of the year.

[EagleDore]

It used to be that midway through football season we were looking forward to basketball. Now we have to look all the way to baseball. Sad…

100. For many years it was thus...

[EagleDore]

Stack may or may not get it done, but I do believe there has been (or at least I thought, not so sure with playing time being what it is) an uptick in recruiting the last two classes (including 2023). I think CJS sees this as a long-haul mindset more so than some of us might.

Dort needs Q's minutes. Love Q, but has he hit his ceiling?

If Jordan can't go, he needs not to play in favor of others. Otherwise he's hurting the team. If Trey can't hit the side of the barn (although better last two games), Shelby or Lewis need more time.

got no issue this far with the production of Liam, Lawrence, and Stute. 50-50 on Ezra. 50-50 on Trey, although I can tell improvement in ball-handling and defense.

Maybe this will pan out in SEC play, but if we go 9-9 in the league, that puts us at 16 wins assuming we handle Alabama A&M/State and SELA.

Dancin' ain't happening this year. I can be happy if I see marked improvement the rest of the year.

Fair points, and at this point, I'll be real happy with above .500 record and post season NIT...it sure would be nice to see the coach adapt some in his style and the young talent get some more exposure/PT.

[memphisVUalum]

At least one of these "games against weak teams" occurred when we had illness/injuries and our best player injured. I'm glad we were not playing a stronger team and blown out when down our full contingent. I don't think we've lost any game by a lot so maybe we are in a position, if we can stay healthy, to do better in the coming games instead of looking at this the most negative way possible.

there may be more parity than we think and perhaps some chances to win some SEC games -- due to the practice against teams that are stronger than some others in our conference played.

But our players are going to have to take the lessons they learned in those games and we're going to need them to also stay healthy. If Wright needs to be careful the way that he moves to avoid hurting his back again, he needs to keep that in mind.

Hopefully Stack can make the lessons learned and the weak spots shown pay off for him in the rest of the season. Maybe these games can help him correct the problems and see if there's a way to use these lessons to win rather than just expose our problems to the teams that see our game films.
A year after losing Scottie, it's not all that surprising to me that we're not as deep as we need to be but I wish we could get that way.

[Jason94]

At least one of these "games against weak teams" occurred when we had illness/injuries and our best player injured. I'm glad we were not playing a stronger team and blown out when down our full contingent. I don't think we've lost any game by a lot so maybe we are in a position, if we can stay healthy, to do better in the coming games instead of looking at this the most negative way possible.

there may be more parity than we think and perhaps some chances to win some SEC games -- due to the practice against teams that are stronger than some others in our conference played.

But our players are going to have to take the lessons they learned in those games and we're going to need them to also stay healthy. If Wright needs to be careful the way that he moves to avoid hurting his back again, he needs to keep that in mind.

Hopefully Stack can make the lessons learned and the weak spots shown pay off for him in the rest of the season. Maybe these games can help him correct the problems and see if there's a way to use these lessons to win rather than just expose our problems to the teams that see our game films.
A year after losing Scottie, it's not all that surprising to me that we're not as deep as we need to be but I wish we could get that way.

There are two teams we played that are more difficult than the average SEC team - Memphis and St. Mary's. The Memphis game we were blown out of and only got to single digits through a garbage time run in the last two minutes that brought the game from 16 points to 9. We lost St. Mary's by 10. The next most difficult game was against NCSU, where we lost by 6 on a neutral court with our full contingent of players (as we had for the other two games). We have 9 of our 18 SEC games against teams that are much tougher than NCSU, and an additional 3 games against teams as tough. The next most difficult for us was Pitt, which we beat at home by 1. We have three games against teams as difficult as Pitt, two on the road.

So based on what we have done in the OOC games, we would likely lose 14 of the 18 SEC games we have scheduled, unless we play better in those games than we have in any game so far this season. The remaining games are two against USC and one at UGA. Unfortunately, we have already proven we can be beaten by a team as bad as either two of those teams, and this has happened three times so far this season (VCU, So. Miss and Grambling are all worse than UGA, and Grambling is worse than USC).

You can say that I'm looking at this in the most negative way possible, but what have you seen from this team that suggests a major turnaround is imminent? We are not playing a bunch of inexperienced players who will likely improve dramatically as the season goes on - we are playing a large number of upperclassmen who for the most part have played exactly as we would have expected they play. Please point out where I am incorrect as opposed to just complaining about this analysis being "negative".

[geeznotagain]

Dort needs Q's minutes. Love Q, but has he hit his ceiling?

To my untrained eye, it looks like QMB has added a few pounds (which we all wanted him to do) and may be a half-step slower. Also, I wish, on the defensive end, he would worry a little less about blocking out his guy in rebound situations and try a little harder to go after the ball.

[dore74]

Depressing thread but one I think is spot on. I'm particularly bummed with the lack of playing time for the freshmen, I had thought we were bringing up a pretty strong class, not so sure at this point. Moreover, agree with the comment that Vandy basketball has become much less fun to watch.

I honestly thought Stack was going to have the program in a much better place than it appears to be at this point in his fourth season. I get our limitations on NIL's and transfers and get it that we don't have any cache these days after the Drew saga, but still...at this point all one can do is see how the conference season unfolds and root for the guys.

Can't imagine anyone in the program is happy where things stand. Wish we could hear more from Stack on how he really views things, felt that good or bad (and it never was indifferent), Stallings let you know what he was thinking. In a season like this the openness would be helpful to the (faltering?) fan base.

[Doreknox]

So far, this OOC stretch has demonstrated that my worst fears are true. Pippin was the backbone, the exoskeleton, the brains of and the will behind our offense. His absence has gutted us. Without him, we are a terrible college team trying to play like a bad NBA one.

Stack either needs to get smart or get gone. For VU to go to a post season tourney, we need to win at least ten games in the OOC. Instead, we're floundering around aimlessly. Without a doubt, CJS is the second worst or absolute worst coach in the SEC East and maybe in the entire conference. Can we run a real college offense for god's sake? I don't see a lot of player development - plus there's a silly reluctance to let the freshman on the floor. If we're gonna stink, we might as well give the four star recruits PT.