Head spinning, please reorient

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alathIN
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Head spinning, please reorient

Post by alathIN »

We've had so many roster moves I've lost track.
Can someone run down who we've got now?
Maybe with a short profile, so we can keep them straight?
Who are locked in for significant roles and who else has potential to be a big contributor?

Manjon seems to be a lock at PG.
Lawrence if he's back
Dort, if only because he brings height and some weight. We did see him flash some in limited time and I don't think it's unrealistic to hope he makes a big step up.
Smith did a lot of things well and is decent beyond the arc, and likely to improve from frosh to soph, so I'd think he gets significant minutes.
Lewis is another rising soph who does a lot of things well, and as far as I know is our only other PG than Manjon, figures to be a valuable bench player.

Beyond those I'm lost.


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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by MrMemorial »

alathIN wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:44 am We've had so many roster moves I've lost track.
Can someone run down who we've got now?
Maybe with a short profile, so we can keep them straight?
Who are locked in for significant roles and who else has potential to be a big contributor?

Manjon seems to be a lock at PG.
Lawrence if he's back
Dort, if only because he brings height and some weight. We did see him flash some in limited time and I don't think it's unrealistic to hope he makes a big step up.
Smith did a lot of things well and is decent beyond the arc, and likely to improve from frosh to soph, so I'd think he gets significant minutes.
Lewis is another rising soph who does a lot of things well, and as far as I know is our only other PG than Manjon, figures to be a valuable bench player.

Beyond those I'm lost.
Isn't the West kid from Goodpasture a PG?

He had sever other SEC offers plus Wake Forest despite an injury as a h.s. junior.
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by quasidiehardvandyfan »

Here's my understanding of next year's landscape, which is just about solidified. I put it in order of expected minutes played per position, though I think it's likely we see guys move around (Colin Smith at the SF position, Tasos at the 4, possibly Evan Taylor off the bench, etc).

PG - Ezra Manjon, Paul Lewis (Soph), Isaiah West (F)
SG - Tyrin Lawrence (Sr), Jason Rivera Torres (F)
SF - Evan Taylor (grad transfer from Lehigh), Malik Presley (F)
PF - Colin Smith (Soph), Ven Allen Lubin (Soph transfer from Notre Dame), Jaqualon Roberts (F)
C - Lee Dort (Soph), Tasos Kamateros (grad transfer from South Dakota), Carter Lang (F)

PG - We return Ezra, who should be a pre-season 2nd team All-SEC candidate if I had to guess. He's backed by Paul Lewis, who was no slouch and I'm sure will find the court this year be it at the 1 or 2. Rankings aside, Isaiah West is probably the most heralded of our freshman class; a combo guard that lit it up earlier in his HS career before getting injured. He finished his senior season strong is probably the most game ready freshmen we have (though I thought the same with Noah Shelby).

SG - Enough has been said about Lawrence. I would think he's a pre-season first-team All-SEC candidate. Rivera Torres is listed at 6'6/6'7 depending where you look, so he has great size and was bumped to a 4 star by 247 after he signed with Vandy. Other offers not too impressive outside of FAU and SDSU, but looks to be like he could be a great late bloomer/sneaky get from the staff.

SF - Evan Taylor isn't Jordan Wright on defense, but his offensive production should translate to the SEC as he shoots 40+% from 3 (last 2 seasons, so not a fluke). Averaged 14.5 and 6.5 at Lehigh. Not the SEC, but would think he'll be a reliable guy for 8 - 12 PPG (with the ability to get hot and go off for more). The rebounding numbers don't suck. Should be a great 1 year player. Malik Presley has the most impressive offers of our any of our Freshmen; he had a committable offer to Texas, but changed course after Beard got fired. I don't know enough about him, but other schools (LSU, Houston, Texas, A&M, Ole Miss, Arizona St) liked what they saw.

PF - Colin Smith should be poised for a breakout season. Certainly an upgrade over Stute at the 4, which was evident toward the end of last season. We also have Ven Allen Lubin joining the party from Notre Dame who has 3 years remaining and is expected to get minutes. Whether those are starters minutes or off the bench remains to be seen, but at 6'8, 225lb, he's a strong PF, averaged 6ish & 4ish Reb per game, and has an impressive 58% FG. Roberts is an athletic recruit, seems like a good one on paper.

C - Dort. Dort is no Robbins, but word is he's slimmed down and we all saw the massive potential last year. Just has to stay healthy and out of foul trouble. Tasos Kamateros is a legit 3-point threat (something that should translate) and could allow us a change of pace. Carter Lang is a freshmen big man. I'm not expecting much in year 1.

On paper, the only positions we're noticeably weaker than last year is Center, though as others have pointed out, due to injuries, I believe QMB played significantly more minutes than Robbins last year. Granted I'm sure half these guys will end up transferring by next year, it does seem like we've managed to drastically improve our depth for now. Trey Thomas and Stute had their moments, but they were increasingly fleeting. And QMB was commendable on defense, but was essentially a non-factor on the offensive end. We should be just fine offensively (assumes Lawrence is back), though defense is probably going to be an issue.
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Nice breakdown! However, I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss next year’s defense. Losing Robbins hurts (and—to a lesser extent—so does losing QMB, though he did rebound reasonably well down the stretch with Robbins out). Still, at positions 2-4 the team will be longer (mostly in the 6’6-6’7+ range) and fairly athletic relative to last season. Thomas and Stute played a ton of minutes, and they were both pretty subpar defensively. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say the minutes they are vacating will yield better defensive results, particularly rebounding.
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by VandyPhile »

Given who our coach is, I think we will end up fairly stout on defense.
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by quasidiehardvandyfan »

VandyPhile wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:32 pm Given who our coach is, I think we will end up fairly stout on defense.
I think we have a perception of Stack's teams being defensive oriented, but that just hasn't been the case. We finished last year ranked #247 in adjusted defensive efficiency. The year before was #78 and the year prior #241. Hardly a stout defensive ranking when all is said and done. Granted the last two teams had Stute and Trey Thomas playing big minutes, but last year also had Wright and Robbins, an above average and an elite defender, respectively. Maybe we'll be ok - Taylor's stats suggest he'll be an above average rebounder for a SF (but so was Wright) and Dort will probably fall in somewhere between Robbins and QMB from a defensive perspective (and QMB was no slouch defensively).
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by Jason94 »

quasidiehardvandyfan wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:46 am
VandyPhile wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:32 pm Given who our coach is, I think we will end up fairly stout on defense.
I think we have a perception of Stack's teams being defensive oriented, but that just hasn't been the case. We finished last year ranked #247 in adjusted defensive efficiency. The year before was #78 and the year prior #241. Hardly a stout defensive ranking when all is said and done. Granted the last two teams had Stute and Trey Thomas playing big minutes, but last year also had Wright and Robbins, an above average and an elite defender, respectively. Maybe we'll be ok - Taylor's stats suggest he'll be an above average rebounder for a SF (but so was Wright) and Dort will probably fall in somewhere between Robbins and QMB from a defensive perspective (and QMB was no slouch defensively).
This is essentially correct, though kenpom has their defensive efficiency higher than what you are noting, though we were still the 12th worst defense in the SEC. We won games last season because our offense was really good - we had a tournament level offense last season but a defense that was not even NIT or CBI worthy.

QMB was good on defense, but my take is that Thomas was so bad on defense, and because we ended up playing him and Manjon on the court so often together, our defense was almost necessarily going to be bad because it is nearly impossible to have a good defense when you are simultaneously playing two players who may be 6'-0" tall in shoes. We were also a terrible rebounding team once Robbins went down. QMB was good on the defensive boards, and neither was any other player in the rotation. Taylor, Kamateros and Lubin all rebounded well on the defensive glass at their previous schools, and this will go a long way to correcting or most glaring defensive weakness.

We have a long way to go to be a good defensive team, but some of the players who left were players who were not the best defenders.
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by geeznotagain »

Jason94 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:58 am
quasidiehardvandyfan wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:46 am
VandyPhile wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:32 pm Given who our coach is, I think we will end up fairly stout on defense.
I think we have a perception of Stack's teams being defensive oriented, but that just hasn't been the case. We finished last year ranked #247 in adjusted defensive efficiency. The year before was #78 and the year prior #241. Hardly a stout defensive ranking when all is said and done. Granted the last two teams had Stute and Trey Thomas playing big minutes, but last year also had Wright and Robbins, an above average and an elite defender, respectively. Maybe we'll be ok - Taylor's stats suggest he'll be an above average rebounder for a SF (but so was Wright) and Dort will probably fall in somewhere between Robbins and QMB from a defensive perspective (and QMB was no slouch defensively).
This is essentially correct, though kenpom has their defensive efficiency higher than what you are noting, though we were still the 12th worst defense in the SEC. We won games last season because our offense was really good - we had a tournament level offense last season but a defense that was not even NIT or CBI worthy.

QMB was good on defense, but my take is that Thomas was so bad on defense, and because we ended up playing him and Manjon on the court so often together, our defense was almost necessarily going to be bad because it is nearly impossible to have a good defense when you are simultaneously playing two players who may be 6'-0" tall in shoes. We were also a terrible rebounding team once Robbins went down. QMB was good on the defensive boards, and neither was any other player in the rotation. Taylor, Kamateros and Lubin all rebounded well on the defensive glass at their previous schools, and this will go a long way to correcting or most glaring defensive weakness.

We have a long way to go to be a good defensive team, but some of the players who left were players who were not the best defenders.
Did you mean to say QMB was NOT good on the defensive boards? My recollection is that he was above average on the offensive boards but not the defensive boards.
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Re: Head spinning, please reorient

Post by Jason94 »

geeznotagain wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 11:24 am
Jason94 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:58 am
quasidiehardvandyfan wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:46 am

I think we have a perception of Stack's teams being defensive oriented, but that just hasn't been the case. We finished last year ranked #247 in adjusted defensive efficiency. The year before was #78 and the year prior #241. Hardly a stout defensive ranking when all is said and done. Granted the last two teams had Stute and Trey Thomas playing big minutes, but last year also had Wright and Robbins, an above average and an elite defender, respectively. Maybe we'll be ok - Taylor's stats suggest he'll be an above average rebounder for a SF (but so was Wright) and Dort will probably fall in somewhere between Robbins and QMB from a defensive perspective (and QMB was no slouch defensively).
This is essentially correct, though kenpom has their defensive efficiency higher than what you are noting, though we were still the 12th worst defense in the SEC. We won games last season because our offense was really good - we had a tournament level offense last season but a defense that was not even NIT or CBI worthy.

QMB was good on defense, but my take is that Thomas was so bad on defense, and because we ended up playing him and Manjon on the court so often together, our defense was almost necessarily going to be bad because it is nearly impossible to have a good defense when you are simultaneously playing two players who may be 6'-0" tall in shoes. We were also a terrible rebounding team once Robbins went down. QMB was good on the defensive boards, and neither was any other player in the rotation. Taylor, Kamateros and Lubin all rebounded well on the defensive glass at their previous schools, and this will go a long way to correcting or most glaring defensive weakness.

We have a long way to go to be a good defensive team, but some of the players who left were players who were not the best defenders.
Did you mean to say QMB was NOT good on the defensive boards? My recollection is that he was above average on the offensive boards but not the defensive boards.
Yes - meant to say not good. Good catch.
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