How does NIL work?

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.

Moderators: kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold, NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit

User avatar
geeznotagain
Admiral
Posts: 8877
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:04 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 72 times

How does NIL work?

Post by geeznotagain »

I wish I knew how the whole NIL thing works, from both the giving and the receiving side.

Hypothetical: Let’s say that I am a rabid Vandy alum and basketball fan, with a net worth of, say, $25M (remember I said hypothetical). And I want to donate 10% of that to encourage athletes to come to Vandy. How do I go about that? Is it legal? Do I have to get something in return (even if it’s nothing more than an autographed jersey)? Who do I contact? Can I specify what players, or even what sports I want to “invest” in? We have some rich Vandy sports fans out there. Is anyone reaching out to them? What is the process? I know we can’t compete with THE Ohio State Universities of the world, or the Crimson Tide, or the Texas Aggies or Longhorns. But what ARE we doing? I want to know as a fan.

Or, on the other side of the coin, if I am a potential recruit or in the transfer portal, who do I contact? Or is the system designed solely for them to contact me? I’m curious about this as well, but not as curious as I am about the top part.

NOTE: This isn't a qualitative question, but a procedural question. And I'd like to know a little about VANDY'S procedures.
Last edited by geeznotagain on Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.


User avatar
DeefromAtlanta
Admiral
Posts: 7980
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:50 am

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by DeefromAtlanta »

It sucks the soul out of the sport. Wait until it becomes a bigger problem in the next two years w/o oversight. High school is next. It's about to become a complete cesspool. Who can stop it?
commadore
Admiral
Posts: 9918
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by commadore »

ABOUT TOO?
PeteFox
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3360
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:27 pm
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by PeteFox »

Currently, not very well.
I will predict the future here.....
Consider the history of major league baseball. In the early years, the teams owned the players in virtual involuntary servitude. As the $$$ grew, the players eventually organized and for a while were in charge. Finally the players organized, the owners,came together, and collective bargaining generated a structure that binds players contractually to a team, with arcane rules about transfers, maximum salaries, etc. etc.
That same trajectory applies to almost all professional sports (no one can understand the soccer rules).
Since the college players are now employees, they (I think) could be contractually tied to a team for their period of eligibility. I think this will happen soon...."Here is big $$$ for using your NIL as a player FOR OUR ORGANIZATION. In return you must sign on to play at least ?? years for us, or at least sign a non-compete agreement covering other academic institutions".
This will happen, eventually, players will rebel, a season or two will be lost to a strike (or work stoppage). Collective bargaining will ensue, and the wild west will be (at least partially) tamed.
User avatar
mathguy
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2046
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:27 pm
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by mathguy »

PeteFox wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:06 am Currently, not very well.
I will predict the future here.....
Consider the history of major league baseball. In the early years, the teams owned the players in virtual involuntary servitude. As the $$$ grew, the players eventually organized and for a while were in charge. Finally the players organized, the owners,came together, and collective bargaining generated a structure that binds players contractually to a team, with arcane rules about transfers, maximum salaries, etc. etc.
That same trajectory applies to almost all professional sports (no one can understand the soccer rules).
Since the college players are now employees, they (I think) could be contractually tied to a team for their period of eligibility. I think this will happen soon...."Here is big $$$ for using your NIL as a player FOR OUR ORGANIZATION. In return you must sign on to play at least ?? years for us, or at least sign a non-compete agreement covering other academic institutions".
This will happen, eventually, players will rebel, a season or two will be lost to a strike (or work stoppage). Collective bargaining will ensue, and the wild west will be (at least partially) tamed.
I agree with you ... with a huge BUT.

BUT when this develops since the economies of power conference programs are so completely different from the economies of low major DI, it is going to be virtually impossible to get to an agreement that includes all. So we will be left with a split that leaves us with about 100 DI teams and the great stories of a St. Peter's making a run to the elite 8 will be but a distant memory.
vandy05
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3675
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by vandy05 »

geeznotagain wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:53 pm I wish I knew how the whole NIL thing works, from both the giving and the receiving side.

Hypothetical: Let’s say that I am a rabid Vandy alum and basketball fan, with a net worth of, say, $25M (remember I said hypothetical). And I want to donate 10% of that to encourage athletes to come to Vandy. How do I go about that? Is it legal? Do I have to get something in return (even if it’s nothing more than an autographed jersey)? Who do I contact? Can I specify what players, or even what sports I want to “invest” in? We have some rich Vandy sports fans out there. Is anyone reaching out to them? What is the process? I know we can’t compete with THE Ohio State Universities of the world, or the Crimson Tide, or the Texas Aggies or Longhorns. But what ARE we doing? I want to know as a fan.

Or, on the other side of the coin, if I am a potential recruit or in the transfer portal, who do I contact? Or is the system designed solely for them to contact me? I’m curious about this as well, but not as curious as I am about the top part.

NOTE: This isn't a qualitative question, but a procedural question. And I'd like to know a little about VANDY'S procedures.
I'll answer your original question since everyone went off on tangents. Players are allowed to earn money based on their name, image and/or likeness. They can sign autographs for money. Be in commercials for money. Make appearances for money. Anyone who wants to can pay them money for these things. There does have to be completion of some sort of service, but it can be absolutely minimal.

Many schools have taken to doing this on a collective basis, meaning there is an entity to which donors give money and the collective gets players linked up with agreements that match their value to the program. VU does it this way, as does pretty much anyone else trying to play in the space.
User avatar
geeznotagain
Admiral
Posts: 8877
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:04 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by geeznotagain »

vandy05 wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:42 pm
geeznotagain wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:53 pm I wish I knew how the whole NIL thing works, from both the giving and the receiving side.

Hypothetical: Let’s say that I am a rabid Vandy alum and basketball fan, with a net worth of, say, $25M (remember I said hypothetical). And I want to donate 10% of that to encourage athletes to come to Vandy. How do I go about that? Is it legal? Do I have to get something in return (even if it’s nothing more than an autographed jersey)? Who do I contact? Can I specify what players, or even what sports I want to “invest” in? We have some rich Vandy sports fans out there. Is anyone reaching out to them? What is the process? I know we can’t compete with THE Ohio State Universities of the world, or the Crimson Tide, or the Texas Aggies or Longhorns. But what ARE we doing? I want to know as a fan.

Or, on the other side of the coin, if I am a potential recruit or in the transfer portal, who do I contact? Or is the system designed solely for them to contact me? I’m curious about this as well, but not as curious as I am about the top part.

NOTE: This isn't a qualitative question, but a procedural question. And I'd like to know a little about VANDY'S procedures.
I'll answer your original question since everyone went off on tangents. Players are allowed to earn money based on their name, image and/or likeness. They can sign autographs for money. Be in commercials for money. Make appearances for money. Anyone who wants to can pay them money for these things. There does have to be completion of some sort of service, but it can be absolutely minimal.

Many schools have taken to doing this on a collective basis, meaning there is an entity to which donors give money and the collective gets players linked up with agreements that match their value to the program. VU does it this way, as does pretty much anyone else trying to play in the space.
OK, thx for the response. Hypothetically again, if I have $2M to entice stud point guard to come to Vandy, do I HAVE to go through Vandy, or can it just be an agreement/contract between him and me (let's say he's going to do a few commercials for my small business)?
alathIN
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:35 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by alathIN »

geeznotagain wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:01 pm
vandy05 wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:42 pm
geeznotagain wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:53 pm I wish I knew how the whole NIL thing works, from both the giving and the receiving side.

Hypothetical: Let’s say that I am a rabid Vandy alum and basketball fan, with a net worth of, say, $25M (remember I said hypothetical). And I want to donate 10% of that to encourage athletes to come to Vandy. How do I go about that? Is it legal? Do I have to get something in return (even if it’s nothing more than an autographed jersey)? Who do I contact? Can I specify what players, or even what sports I want to “invest” in? We have some rich Vandy sports fans out there. Is anyone reaching out to them? What is the process? I know we can’t compete with THE Ohio State Universities of the world, or the Crimson Tide, or the Texas Aggies or Longhorns. But what ARE we doing? I want to know as a fan.

Or, on the other side of the coin, if I am a potential recruit or in the transfer portal, who do I contact? Or is the system designed solely for them to contact me? I’m curious about this as well, but not as curious as I am about the top part.

NOTE: This isn't a qualitative question, but a procedural question. And I'd like to know a little about VANDY'S procedures.
I'll answer your original question since everyone went off on tangents. Players are allowed to earn money based on their name, image and/or likeness. They can sign autographs for money. Be in commercials for money. Make appearances for money. Anyone who wants to can pay them money for these things. There does have to be completion of some sort of service, but it can be absolutely minimal.

Many schools have taken to doing this on a collective basis, meaning there is an entity to which donors give money and the collective gets players linked up with agreements that match their value to the program. VU does it this way, as does pretty much anyone else trying to play in the space.
OK, thx for the response. Hypothetically again, if I have $2M to entice stud point guard to come to Vandy, do I HAVE to go through Vandy, or can it just be an agreement/contract between him and me (let's say he's going to do a few commercials for my small business)?
I don't know all the details but one thing I do know is the money CANNOT come from the school. So Vanderbilt would be the one entity you absolutely could NOT give your money to.
In theory the collectives are entirely independent of the schools and in theory they don't know who the school is recruiting etc. This is obviously a fiction.

I have not seen much if any meaningful marketing work done by the players for the donors. I think this is also a fiction. Legally the players' case was that they own their names images and likenesses, and the NCAA and its member institutions had no legal grounds to prohibit them earning money from their own identities. But clearly they are paid according to their projected productivity as players.
vandy05
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3675
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:23 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by vandy05 »

geeznotagain wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:01 pm
vandy05 wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:42 pm
geeznotagain wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:53 pm I wish I knew how the whole NIL thing works, from both the giving and the receiving side.

Hypothetical: Let’s say that I am a rabid Vandy alum and basketball fan, with a net worth of, say, $25M (remember I said hypothetical). And I want to donate 10% of that to encourage athletes to come to Vandy. How do I go about that? Is it legal? Do I have to get something in return (even if it’s nothing more than an autographed jersey)? Who do I contact? Can I specify what players, or even what sports I want to “invest” in? We have some rich Vandy sports fans out there. Is anyone reaching out to them? What is the process? I know we can’t compete with THE Ohio State Universities of the world, or the Crimson Tide, or the Texas Aggies or Longhorns. But what ARE we doing? I want to know as a fan.

Or, on the other side of the coin, if I am a potential recruit or in the transfer portal, who do I contact? Or is the system designed solely for them to contact me? I’m curious about this as well, but not as curious as I am about the top part.

NOTE: This isn't a qualitative question, but a procedural question. And I'd like to know a little about VANDY'S procedures.
I'll answer your original question since everyone went off on tangents. Players are allowed to earn money based on their name, image and/or likeness. They can sign autographs for money. Be in commercials for money. Make appearances for money. Anyone who wants to can pay them money for these things. There does have to be completion of some sort of service, but it can be absolutely minimal.

Many schools have taken to doing this on a collective basis, meaning there is an entity to which donors give money and the collective gets players linked up with agreements that match their value to the program. VU does it this way, as does pretty much anyone else trying to play in the space.
OK, thx for the response. Hypothetically again, if I have $2M to entice stud point guard to come to Vandy, do I HAVE to go through Vandy, or can it just be an agreement/contract between him and me (let's say he's going to do a few commercials for my small business)?
You do NOT need to go through the school, and as pointed out, you technically can't go through the school.
commadore
Admiral
Posts: 9918
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by commadore »

alathIN wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:49 pm
geeznotagain wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 3:01 pm
vandy05 wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 2:42 pm

I'll answer your original question since everyone went off on tangents. Players are allowed to earn money based on their name, image and/or likeness. They can sign autographs for money. Be in commercials for money. Make appearances for money. Anyone who wants to can pay them money for these things. There does have to be completion of some sort of service, but it can be absolutely minimal.

Many schools have taken to doing this on a collective basis, meaning there is an entity to which donors give money and the collective gets players linked up with agreements that match their value to the program. VU does it this way, as does pretty much anyone else trying to play in the space.
OK, thx for the response. Hypothetically again, if I have $2M to entice stud point guard to come to Vandy, do I HAVE to go through Vandy, or can it just be an agreement/contract between him and me (let's say he's going to do a few commercials for my small business)?
I don't know all the details but one thing I do know is the money CANNOT come from the school. So Vanderbilt would be the one entity you absolutely could NOT give your money to.
In theory the collectives are entirely independent of the schools and in theory they don't know who the school is recruiting etc. This is obviously a fiction.

I have not seen much if any meaningful marketing work done by the players for the donors. I think this is also a fiction. Legally the players' case was that they own their names images and likenesses, and the NCAA and its member institutions had no legal grounds to prohibit them earning money from their own identities. But clearly they are paid according to their projected productivity as players.
Here is a direct example that nearly backfired. Tow years ago Milos restaurant chain contracted with Bo Nix (who was still at Auburn) to represent their tea sales. Big news in the state. Unfortunately for them, tea sales dropped like Bud Light in the northern half of Alabama. They then contracted with Bryce Young for the same amount and sales soared. They sold lots of tea, Nix got benched and transferred to Oregon, Young became the number 1 draft choice, and Milos spent twice what they thought they were going to spend.
commadore
Admiral
Posts: 9918
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by commadore »

Here is how it works. Bruce Oyster, say, needs a power forward. James Dunkinheimer says for $250,000 I'll come to Aubren. Bruce calls (in the past would have been Bobby Lowder, not sure who now) Harry Howmuchyaneed, a farmer who owns half of eastern Alabama. Bruce calls James and says we got you $300,000, but you have to ride a horse and promise not to transfer. James says where do I sign and the rest is history. Now, the foregoing was a fictional account and does not represent real transactions. :) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Vandy187187
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:06 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by Vandy187187 »

The movie Blue Chips comes to mind.
MrMemorial
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2016
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by MrMemorial »

Vandy187187 wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 4:47 pm The movie Blue Chips comes to mind.
Sam Gilbert was an American businessman who owned a construction company in Los Angeles, California. He is best known as a controversial athletic booster of the UCLA Bruins men's basketball team from the mid-1960s until UCLA was ordered to disassociate.

I noticed the "Western Dolphins" colors were very similar to UCLA. :eek: :shock:
User avatar
AuricGoldfinger
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

Here's a good example of where we are with NIL. Basically, anyone but the school itself can give a player money, and very little is expected in return. We don't even need the collective or the school.

User avatar
AuricGoldfinger
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

User avatar
geeznotagain
Admiral
Posts: 8877
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:04 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: How does NIL work?

Post by geeznotagain »

AuricGoldfinger wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 2:12 pm Here's a good example of where we are with NIL. Basically, anyone but the school itself can give a player money, and very little is expected in return. We don't even need the collective or the school.

And yet our SEC commissioner still maintains this is not a "pay for play" thing? C'mon man. Call it like it is. Is class attendance even required? That will be the next domino to fall, and we will have transitioned from a semi-pro scenario to one that is indistinguishable (almost) from the NBA, NFL, etc. Makes me sick to my stomach. And admittedly part of that is sour grapes.
Locked Previous topicNext topic