Haptown (or anyone in the know)

[Ndorefin]

dcdore wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:18 pm

“Sad when the University doesn't let us know who is on the team, and we have to find out from the beat writer.
Bet Corbin would love to have a set roster at this time of the summer, but this is college baseball and the roster will be in flux until Feb.”


Haptown wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:17 pm

“Most of the freshmen have not enrolled yet as the fall semester's first day of classes is not until Aug 21. And not all of the commitments have scholarship offers so they can go to any of college without penalty until they enroll. These would be the preferred walk on's. Others that were on the roster last year may not return due to lack of expected playing time, financial reasons, etc.

Vanderbilt baseball has historically been very quiet about roster changes until the official roster has been announced in Feb. As a fan, I will have to wait until the fall baseball series is played to find out who may be on the spring roster, and even then there may be 40+ with walk-ons.”



HAPTOWN....you appear to be aware of VU’s scholarship situation and I have been trying to get things clear in my old, worn-out brain. It is my understanding that if you have a baseball scholarship, any money you receive from Opportunity VU counts toward the “baseball pool”. Example: if you receive a 1/2 baseball scholly and $30,000 from Opportunity VU, you would count as 1 full baseball scholly.....is that correct? If so, some of the players who come from less affluent backgrounds would be better served (as well as the baseball team) to not accept the baseball scholly and rely on Opportunity VU to fund their education, since they would receive much more assistance. I believe this is where the Ms. schools get their panties in a wad. Opportunity VU is available for every student, therefore, if you are accepted into school, this is an option for you. Is this how you see it?

[cjdore]

It is my understanding that if a player gets 1/2 baseball scholly and 1/2 Opportunity VU, then only the 1/2 counts against VU's 11 measly baseball schollys.

[Good2BGold]

It is my understanding that if a player gets 1/2 baseball scholly and 1/2 Opportunity VU, then only the 1/2 counts against VU's 11 measly baseball schollys.

Actually according to the article linked below from Anchor of Gold, if the player is getting any baseball scholarship money, any Opportunity Vanderbilt money he gets counts toward the scholarship limit.

Opportunity Vanderbilt: An Explainer

[cjdore]

It is my understanding that if a player gets 1/2 baseball scholly and 1/2 Opportunity VU, then only the 1/2 counts against VU's 11 measly baseball schollys.

Actually according to the article linked below from Anchor of Gold, if the player is getting any baseball scholarship money, any Opportunity Vanderbilt money he gets counts toward the scholarship limit.

Opportunity Vanderbilt: An Explainer

I do not see how this could be possible. NCAA limits college baseball with 11.7 schollys. It would take many of the athletes you described to put us over the limit. No way no how.....Colleges MUST find a way to fully fund baseball programs or if a college cannot do so they need to hang up their cleats.

[Good2BGold]

It is my understanding that if a player gets 1/2 baseball scholly and 1/2 Opportunity VU, then only the 1/2 counts against VU's 11 measly baseball schollys.

Actually according to the article linked below from Anchor of Gold, if the player is getting any baseball scholarship money, any Opportunity Vanderbilt money he gets counts toward the scholarship limit.

Opportunity Vanderbilt: An Explainer

I do not see how this could be possible. NCAA limits college baseball with 11.7 schollys. It would take many of the athletes you described to put us over the limit. No way no how.....Colleges MUST find a way to fully fund baseball programs or if a college cannot do so they need to hang up their cleats.

You don't see how what could be possible? If a player gets a half a scholarship and the other half of his costs are covered by Opportunity Vanderbilt, that counts as a full scholarship, one of the 11.7. But if a player gets his entire ride covered by Opportunity Vanderbilt, that counts nothing against the 11.7.

[cjdore]

Actually according to the article linked below from Anchor of Gold, if the player is getting any baseball scholarship money, any Opportunity Vanderbilt money he gets counts toward the scholarship limit.

Opportunity Vanderbilt: An Explainer

I do not see how this could be possible. NCAA limits college baseball with 11.7 schollys. It would take many of the athletes you described to put us over the limit. No way no how.....Colleges MUST find a way to fully fund baseball programs or if a college cannot do so they need to hang up their cleats.

You don't see how what could be possible? If a player gets a half a scholarship and the other half of his costs are covered by Opportunity Vanderbilt, that counts as a full scholarship, one of the 11.7. But if a player gets his entire ride covered by Opportunity Vanderbilt, that counts nothing against the 11.7.

Well you must not be a math major like I was. Programs must split 11.7 scholarships between 27 players. Baseball has always loved great students for this very reason. If a good student comes to VU maybe he gets 50% academic and 50% baseball scholly. The academic does not count toward the 11.7 nor does real need based aid.

[Good2BGold]

I do not see how this could be possible. NCAA limits college baseball with 11.7 schollys. It would take many of the athletes you described to put us over the limit. No way no how.....Colleges MUST find a way to fully fund baseball programs or if a college cannot do so they need to hang up their cleats.

You don't see how what could be possible? If a player gets a half a scholarship and the other half of his costs are covered by Opportunity Vanderbilt, that counts as a full scholarship, one of the 11.7. But if a player gets his entire ride covered by Opportunity Vanderbilt, that counts nothing against the 11.7.

Well you must not be a math major like I was. Programs must split 11.7 scholarships between 27 players. Baseball has always loved great students for this very reason. If a good student comes to VU maybe he gets 50% academic and 50% baseball scholly. The academic does not count toward the 11.7 nor does real need based aid.

You're right in thinking I wasn't a math major, cj.

I'm just going by this info from the Anchor of Gold article:

Where things get tricky with baseball and other equivalency sports, though, is in deciding what financial aid counts toward the scholarship limit. That’s a two-step process: first, the NCAA determines if a student-athlete is a “counter” for scholarship purposes. In equivalency sports, that means that some portion of the student-athlete’s financial aid is athletic aid. Once you’re a counter, all of your financial aid from the university is counted toward the scholarship limit, regardless of whether it’s athletic aid or not. But if you’re not considered a “counter” — meaning that you aren’t on an athletic scholarship — none of your financial aid counts toward the limit, even if you’re getting your entire cost of attendance paid for.

So according to the above info, a "counter" is a student who is receiving some athletic scholarship money, and if you are a "counter," all your aid "counts" against the scholarship limit of 11.7 scholarships. So a "counter" who is getting a full ride via a combination of athletic scholarship money and other aid counts as one full scholarship out of the 11.7 allowed.

[commadore]

It is my understanding that if a player gets 1/2 baseball scholly and 1/2 Opportunity VU, then only the 1/2 counts against VU's 11 measly baseball schollys.

Actually according to the article linked below from Anchor of Gold, if the player is getting any baseball scholarship money, any Opportunity Vanderbilt money he gets counts toward the scholarship limit.

Opportunity Vanderbilt: An Explainer

If, in fact, that is true, how do we get ANYONE into school to play baseball. I know the rule says anyone getting a scholarship for baseball must get at least a quarter scholarship, so if we have 11 people getting 75% opportunity credit, then all the baseball scholarships are gone. If we then give opportunity credit to others without baseball schollys, I see why everyone else is pi$$ed. That simply makes no sense to me.

[Haptown]

The post by Good2BeGold and link provided from AnchorOfGold is the correct interpretation as far as I know. the 11.7 does not have to be divided up between 27 players, but could be given to as few as 12 or any number in between.

As a parent who not too long ago sent his daughter off to college and filled out the https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/fafsa paperwork, we got back what is know as the Expected Family Contribution (EFC). Vanderbilt uses a modified EFC, but it would give someone a rough idea of what it would cost to attend Vanderbilt. In my case, for her freshman year, our EFC was about $50k, but after some major unexpected expenses, the EFC went down to $17k the next year. At that EFC amount, attending Vanderbilt looked very attractive, if only she could have gotten in.

With only about 6-8% of all applicants being accepted to VU, being recruited as a baseball preferred walk-on (PWO) helps gets you in the door! Now say, the EFC comes back at $30K, is that low enough to make attending VU worthwhile and to play on the best college program, or go to another school and still pay $15k with a 25% scholarship? And there is a very high probability that several on the team are getting little to no help, and happy to have the opportunity to be there.

[Versus75]

... I, too, had seen that every player must get at least a 1/4 scholly. But I also thought the roster limit was 35 and the 11.7 must be divided among 35 players.

11.7 is 1/3 of 35 (with rounding)

Thus in that scenario, if Pedro Alvarez and David Price got 100% in 2007-2008 and 27 players got 25% schollies, that left 3.0 scholarships for the remaining 6 players ... at about 50%.

If the 11.7 is spread among only 27, then the NCAA is essentially saying, "You can have 8 walk-ons." And that doesn't make sense because nearly all (if not all) of our players are recruited. Do those 8 get to eat with the team or must they go to Rand for the pre-game meal?

And if they are walk-ons, why can't we have 10 or 15 walk-ons like some football teams?

I think that Vanderbilt's baseball team was still at around 37 players by the time the season started. I guess that left 2 players who weren't even good enough to be considered walk-ons.

In either case, we're spending so little (in comparison to football), the team should hire another paid assistant coach.

[Good2BGold]

... I, too, had seen that every player must get at least a 1/4 scholly. But I also thought the roster limit was 35 and the 11.7 must be divided among 35 players.

11.7 is 1/3 of 35 (with rounding)

Thus in that scenario, if Pedro Alvarez and David Price got 100% in 2007-2008 and 27 players got 25% schollies, that left 3.0 scholarships for the remaining 6 players ... at about 50%.

If the 11.7 is spread among only 27, then the NCAA is essentially saying, "You can have 8 walk-ons." And that doesn't make sense because nearly all (if not all) of our players are recruited. Do those 8 get to eat with the team or must they go to Rand for the pre-game meal?

And if they are walk-ons, why can't we have 10 or 15 walk-ons like some football teams?

I think that Vanderbilt's baseball team was still at around 37 players by the time the season started. I guess that left 2 players who weren't even good enough to be considered walk-ons.

In either case, we're spending so little (in comparison to football), the team should hire another paid assistant coach.

Every player doesn't have to get at least a one-quarter scholarship, but every player getting a baseball scholarship must receive at least a one-quarter scholarship.

[Ndorefin]

... I, too, had seen that every player must get at least a 1/4 scholly. But I also thought the roster limit was 35 and the 11.7 must be divided among 35 players.

11.7 is 1/3 of 35 (with rounding)

Thus in that scenario, if Pedro Alvarez and David Price got 100% in 2007-2008 and 27 players got 25% schollies, that left 3.0 scholarships for the remaining 6 players ... at about 50%.

If the 11.7 is spread among only 27, then the NCAA is essentially saying, "You can have 8 walk-ons." And that doesn't make sense because nearly all (if not all) of our players are recruited. Do those 8 get to eat with the team or must they go to Rand for the pre-game meal?

And if they are walk-ons, why can't we have 10 or 15 walk-ons like some football teams?

I think that Vanderbilt's baseball team was still at around 37 players by the time the season started. I guess that left 2 players who weren't even good enough to be considered walk-ons.

In either case, we're spending so little (in comparison to football), the team should hire another paid assistant coach.

1) The 11.7 scholarships can be divided among 27 players MAX.

2) Opportunity VU didn’t exist when David Price first enrolled at VU.