Take deep breath, step back from ledge

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.

Moderators: kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold, NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit

commadore
Admiral
Posts: 9918
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by commadore »

MrMemorial wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:50 am IIRC, the final 2 teams in the NIT right now each have 6 transfers.

That's the world we now reside in since the NCAA used the pandemic to throw out the rule book.

You can like it. You can hate it. But it's the new reality. Pick any boogie-man you want to make the scapegoat for this new reality. Sarah Fuller...Malcolm Turner...Zeppos shouting "ANCHOR DOWN" at Adam Sparks in a parking lot...Piggly Wiggly over by 29th Ave being closed...

All of them have as much to do with the NCAA's greed and corruption as our coaches.
If all that is true, then get used to many 15-15 seasons.


commadore
Admiral
Posts: 9918
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by commadore »

OldDude wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:26 am Simply reinforcing one point made a couple of times in this thread. CJS may need to work some real magic with the administration to successfully win the portal battle. There may be transfers out there who would love to come to VU, but, if they are juniors or grad transfers, academic admissions may be a real challenge.
Again, juniors CAN get in if they have completed 60 hours of transferrable credits. I know, I did it. Otherwise, how would a juco kid, athlete or otherwise, ever be able to transfer in.
Last edited by commadore on Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
geeznotagain
Admiral
Posts: 8877
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:04 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 72 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by geeznotagain »

And there's the impact of the NIL $. I have zero knowledge of how we compare to our SEC rivals there. But I suspect we're at or near the bottom as to what we are able to offer.
MrMemorial
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2016
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by MrMemorial »

commadore wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:09 pm
MrMemorial wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:50 am IIRC, the final 2 teams in the NIT right now each have 6 transfers.

That's the world we now reside in since the NCAA used the pandemic to throw out the rule book.

You can like it. You can hate it. But it's the new reality. Pick any boogie-man you want to make the scapegoat for this new reality. Sarah Fuller...Malcolm Turner...Zeppos shouting "ANCHOR DOWN" at Adam Sparks in a parking lot...Piggly Wiggly over by 29th Ave being closed...

All of them have as much to do with the NCAA's greed and corruption as our coaches.
If all that is true, then get used to many 15-15 seasons.
That's a distinct possibility. I'll take a middle-upper SEC record and 3rd round NIT over losing 20 in a row.

So, thank Malcolm Turner for that.

Image
User avatar
OldDude
Vice Admiral
Posts: 4508
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:59 pm
Location: Bellevue
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by OldDude »

commadore wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:16 pm
OldDude wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:26 am Simply reinforcing one point made a couple of times in this thread. CJS may need to work some real magic with the administration to successfully win the portal battle. There may be transfers out there who would love to come to VU, but, if they are juniors or grad transfers, academic admissions may be a real challenge.
Again, juiors CAN get in if they have completed 60 hours of transferrable credits. I know, I did it. Otherwise, how would a juco kid, athlete or otherwise, ever be able to transfer in.
If they are currently juniors ( the current portal) and would therefore begin their senior year the season after the transfer, it is my understanding that VU is not cooperative. Also VU's grad schools are extremely competitive.
UltimateVUFan
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3143
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:25 am
Has thanked: 163 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Vandy187187 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:08 am Here is my issue. Stack has said this is a developers program. We want to recruit high school recruits and coach 'em up. We want to grow old as a team like QMB as a VU ambassador. Coach Ralph has honestly stated the limitations with transfers at VU. Our strategy simply will not work with 4 transfer portals out each year. True some have graduated and go on. But we lost Stute, Dia, Shelby, all should have been big contributors next year.

Our "strategy" says that we have to be different right? I don't know that we can be if nobody cares about the degree. Based on the transfer portal, nobody cares anymore.

That doesn't mean that we can't get some great players to come in and contribute next year. What it means is that the whole get them young and raise them up strategy is out the window. We get them young and they leave us young. Been that way since Disu. Imagine if he was on the team still and Scottie. But they aren't. We still had a darn good team but imagine with them on it.
Fair points all around, though the flip side to the last one is that VU has also benefitted from the portal. Fans at Minnesota/Drake, UC Davis, Dayton, and Rice could say the same re: Robbins, Manjon, Chatman, and QMB.
The portal giveth, and the portal taketh away.

There is hope for next year’s roster depending on how things play out. Not to mention, Paul Lewis was a late add in the last recruiting cycle, and he looked much more ready to contribute than Noah Shelby.

Kinda reminds me of the Parable of the Chinese Farmer. We can all lament the loss of so many players we thought might contribute next year and say the situation is terrible. He would simply respond, “maybe.”
Obvious
Captain
Posts: 592
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:51 pm
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Obvious »

Doreknox wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:56 am
Vandy187187 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:08 am Here is my issue. Stack has said this is a developers program. We want to recruit high school recruits and coach 'em up. We want to grow old as a team like QMB as a VU ambassador. Coach Ralph has honestly stated the limitations with transfers at VU. Our strategy simply will not work with 4 transfer portals out each year. True some have graduated and go on. But we lost Stute, Dia, Shelby, all should have been big contributors next year.

Our "strategy" says that we have to be different right? I don't know that we can be if nobody cares about the degree. Based on the transfer portal, nobody cares anymore.

That doesn't mean that we can't get some great players to come in and contribute next year. What it means is that the whole get them young and raise them up strategy is out the window. We get them young and they leave us young. Been that way since Disu. Imagine if he was on the team still and Scottie. But they aren't. We still had a darn good team but imagine with them on it.
If Stack wants a developers program, then he has to figure out how to put freshman players into games and situations where they will succeed. Other coaches seem to be able to do it. Otherwise, he will continue to lose large portions or all of his recruiting classes.

It took this team 22 games this year to figure out how to play together within Stack's system. Will it take 22 games next year for the team with six new players to gel and play good basketball?

I know many of you feel transfers are par for the course these days, but I still think there is far too much attrition in our basketball program. Either we are missing out on player talent evaluations or on their potential fit within the university. Given the admittedly shallow pool of transfers from which we can recruit, we need four year players.
If we’re a developers program wouldn’t it be a contradiction to play freshmen so much? After all, we will have wasted development on the upper classmen. What are we developing for? To win games with upperclassmen. I’m not saying which is the right way to run a program. But developing guys into 3-4 years players is going to limit the freshmen playing time.
commadore
Admiral
Posts: 9918
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 124 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by commadore »

OldDude wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:08 pm
commadore wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:16 pm
OldDude wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:26 am Simply reinforcing one point made a couple of times in this thread. CJS may need to work some real magic with the administration to successfully win the portal battle. There may be transfers out there who would love to come to VU, but, if they are juniors or grad transfers, academic admissions may be a real challenge.
Again, juiors CAN get in if they have completed 60 hours of transferrable credits. I know, I did it. Otherwise, how would a juco kid, athlete or otherwise, ever be able to transfer in.

If they are currently juniors ( the current portal) and would therefore begin their senior year the season after the transfer, it is my understanding that VU is not cooperative. Also VU's grad schools are extremely competitive.
Rising juniors.
dore74
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3144
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:02 pm
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by dore74 »

Basketball just takes one or two really good additions most years to make a difference. Past history shows the staff knows what it’s doing here. Suspect in a lot of, but certainly not in all, years this will work out for us. Keep looking to see who we might be picking up this year, certainly adds to off season suspense
Jason94
Admiral
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Jason94 »

dore74 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:53 am Basketball just takes one or two really good additions most years to make a difference. Past history shows the staff knows what it’s doing here. Suspect in a lot of, but certainly not in all, years this will work out for us. Keep looking to see who we might be picking up this year, certainly adds to off season suspense
The record on of the staff has been hit or miss. We have definitely had some really good additions over the last two seasons, Chatman and Robbins last season and Manjon this season. But we have also had players who were misses, including Terran Frank, Jermaine Mann, DJ Harvey. Ansong was neither a hit nor a miss I guess, though in his stead a player like Dia might have seen the floor a bit more.

So my hope is that they are improving their understanding of the portal and what is required to compete in the SEC and are using readily available statistics to supplement their scouting of the players they are going after.

Personnel issues have been the thing that has kept us out of the tournament so far. Get that fixed and we should be dancing next season.
User avatar
VandyPhile
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:45 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by VandyPhile »

Jason94 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:55 pm
dore74 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:53 am Basketball just takes one or two really good additions most years to make a difference. Past history shows the staff knows what it’s doing here. Suspect in a lot of, but certainly not in all, years this will work out for us. Keep looking to see who we might be picking up this year, certainly adds to off season suspense
The record on of the staff has been hit or miss. We have definitely had some really good additions over the last two seasons, Chatman and Robbins last season and Manjon this season. But we have also had players who were misses, including Terran Frank, Jermaine Mann, DJ Harvey. Ansong was neither a hit nor a miss I guess, though in his stead a player like Dia might have seen the floor a bit more.

So my hope is that they are improving their understanding of the portal and what is required to compete in the SEC and are using readily available statistics to supplement their scouting of the players they are going after.

Personnel issues have been the thing that has kept us out of the tournament so far. Get that fixed and we should be dancing next season.
I think Ansong was an unanticipated walk on. A freebie.
Jason94
Admiral
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Jason94 »

VandyPhile wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:40 pm
Jason94 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:55 pm
dore74 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:53 am Basketball just takes one or two really good additions most years to make a difference. Past history shows the staff knows what it’s doing here. Suspect in a lot of, but certainly not in all, years this will work out for us. Keep looking to see who we might be picking up this year, certainly adds to off season suspense
The record on of the staff has been hit or miss. We have definitely had some really good additions over the last two seasons, Chatman and Robbins last season and Manjon this season. But we have also had players who were misses, including Terran Frank, Jermaine Mann, DJ Harvey. Ansong was neither a hit nor a miss I guess, though in his stead a player like Dia might have seen the floor a bit more.

So my hope is that they are improving their understanding of the portal and what is required to compete in the SEC and are using readily available statistics to supplement their scouting of the players they are going after.

Personnel issues have been the thing that has kept us out of the tournament so far. Get that fixed and we should be dancing next season.
I think Ansong was an unanticipated walk on. A freebie.
I'm pretty sure this isn't true, since he has been a part of the scholarship discussions for which scholarships would free up at the end of the year. Prior to the portal announcements it has always been that we knew that two players (Robbins and Ansong) were going to be available, which is why everyone assumed Wright was not coming back since we have three committed freshmen and would have needed to make room for them. The fact that we were apparently reaching out to players who had already entered the portal was indicative of more than one player not coming back who had eligibility. \

Or at the very least he might have been a preferred walkon that we gave our last scholarship this season to. But he was almost certainly on scholarship this season. Not a horrible thing since it was only a one year commitment, but also not a player who was going to make a major impact on the team's success, and that was pretty clear when he was announced. He wasn't a bad player, but I don't know that his PT couldn't have been utilized by Dia or Shelby without much difference to our W/L record.
Jason94
Admiral
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Jason94 »

Obvious wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:46 pm
Doreknox wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:56 am
Vandy187187 wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:08 am Here is my issue. Stack has said this is a developers program. We want to recruit high school recruits and coach 'em up. We want to grow old as a team like QMB as a VU ambassador. Coach Ralph has honestly stated the limitations with transfers at VU. Our strategy simply will not work with 4 transfer portals out each year. True some have graduated and go on. But we lost Stute, Dia, Shelby, all should have been big contributors next year.

Our "strategy" says that we have to be different right? I don't know that we can be if nobody cares about the degree. Based on the transfer portal, nobody cares anymore.

That doesn't mean that we can't get some great players to come in and contribute next year. What it means is that the whole get them young and raise them up strategy is out the window. We get them young and they leave us young. Been that way since Disu. Imagine if he was on the team still and Scottie. But they aren't. We still had a darn good team but imagine with them on it.
If Stack wants a developers program, then he has to figure out how to put freshman players into games and situations where they will succeed. Other coaches seem to be able to do it. Otherwise, he will continue to lose large portions or all of his recruiting classes.

It took this team 22 games this year to figure out how to play together within Stack's system. Will it take 22 games next year for the team with six new players to gel and play good basketball?

I know many of you feel transfers are par for the course these days, but I still think there is far too much attrition in our basketball program. Either we are missing out on player talent evaluations or on their potential fit within the university. Given the admittedly shallow pool of transfers from which we can recruit, we need four year players.
If we’re a developers program wouldn’t it be a contradiction to play freshmen so much? After all, we will have wasted development on the upper classmen. What are we developing for? To win games with upperclassmen. I’m not saying which is the right way to run a program. But developing guys into 3-4 years players is going to limit the freshmen playing time.
I don't think that it would be a contradiction - you don't have to play the freshmen 30 mpg, but you should play them some and do so with consistency. And while we were not playing our freshmen, we were giving a lot of PT to players who are not going to be back next season and in some cases had pretty low ceilings. Maybe Shelby was completely misranked by everyone and is simply a recruiting miss. But if he ends up turning into something at another school, I'll always wonder if he might have stayed had he had some of the minutes that were given to Thomas or Ansong. Shelby was either a recruiting miss or someone CJS buried behind marginal SEC players.

Previous coaches would fill our roster depth of talented upperclassmen teams with freshmen, and figure out ways to get them PT, even if it weren't in the most critical moments. Jermaine Beal struggled as a freshman but got around 16 mpg overall, and due to taking his lumps as a freshman had a pretty large jump as a sophomore. I expect Smith will do the same.

If we are going to be more active in the portal that is fine, but we shouldn't be playing marginal upperclassmen over freshmen with higher ceilings IMO. I'm positive that Lang, West and Roberts, if given playing time will make freshmen mistakes at times next season and will do things that are not what the coach wants. But I'm nearly as positive that they will be much better as sophomores if given consistent playing time. The good thing is that while we lose Wrigth and Robbins, we also lose all of our marginal players as well - Thomas, Ansong and the version of Stute that couldn't hit a three. CJS shouldn't bring in a marginal wing and give that player PT over Roberts or West and shouldn't bring in a marginal post player and play them over Lang.
User avatar
Nashmann
Admiral
Posts: 9991
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:36 am
Location: Nashville
Has thanked: 109 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Contact:

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Nashmann »

You can't play 13 players....not feasible!
"I have not yet begun to fight!" ....John Paul Jones AD* AD* @GAD @AD
alathIN
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:35 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by alathIN »

Jason94 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:42 pm
Obvious wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:46 pm
Doreknox wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:56 am

If Stack wants a developers program, then he has to figure out how to put freshman players into games and situations where they will succeed. Other coaches seem to be able to do it. Otherwise, he will continue to lose large portions or all of his recruiting classes.

It took this team 22 games this year to figure out how to play together within Stack's system. Will it take 22 games next year for the team with six new players to gel and play good basketball?

I know many of you feel transfers are par for the course these days, but I still think there is far too much attrition in our basketball program. Either we are missing out on player talent evaluations or on their potential fit within the university. Given the admittedly shallow pool of transfers from which we can recruit, we need four year players.
If we’re a developers program wouldn’t it be a contradiction to play freshmen so much? After all, we will have wasted development on the upper classmen. What are we developing for? To win games with upperclassmen. I’m not saying which is the right way to run a program. But developing guys into 3-4 years players is going to limit the freshmen playing time.
I don't think that it would be a contradiction - you don't have to play the freshmen 30 mpg, but you should play them some and do so with consistency. And while we were not playing our freshmen, we were giving a lot of PT to players who are not going to be back next season and in some cases had pretty low ceilings. Maybe Shelby was completely misranked by everyone and is simply a recruiting miss. But if he ends up turning into something at another school, I'll always wonder if he might have stayed had he had some of the minutes that were given to Thomas or Ansong. Shelby was either a recruiting miss or someone CJS buried behind marginal SEC players.

Previous coaches would fill our roster depth of talented upperclassmen teams with freshmen, and figure out ways to get them PT, even if it weren't in the most critical moments. Jermaine Beal struggled as a freshman but got around 16 mpg overall, and due to taking his lumps as a freshman had a pretty large jump as a sophomore. I expect Smith will do the same.

If we are going to be more active in the portal that is fine, but we shouldn't be playing marginal upperclassmen over freshmen with higher ceilings IMO. I'm positive that Lang, West and Roberts, if given playing time will make freshmen mistakes at times next season and will do things that are not what the coach wants. But I'm nearly as positive that they will be much better as sophomores if given consistent playing time. The good thing is that while we lose Wrigth and Robbins, we also lose all of our marginal players as well - Thomas, Ansong and the version of Stute that couldn't hit a three. CJS shouldn't bring in a marginal wing and give that player PT over Roberts or West and shouldn't bring in a marginal post player and play them over Lang.
Two thoughts to add to this discussion:

Lack of blowout wins is a contributor to this problem. If we're up 25 points with 8m to go, playing a freshman who makes 2 good plays and 3 mistakes isn't the end of the world. If every game goes down to the wire you don't have the breathing room for those learning experiences.

I keep thinking that managing immature egos may be Stackhouse's Achilles heel. As a player he was a consummate "professional" in the true sense of the word. As a G-league coach he would have been working with players who were a few years older, and who had been taught the hard way that they are not talented enough to just roll out of bed into the NBA all star game. From a distance admittedly, it looks like Stackhouse may not have much tolerance for a freshman who acts like, well, a freshman.
Jason94
Admiral
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Jason94 »

Nashmann wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 12:38 am You can't play 13 players....not feasible!
Right - you have to make a choice between playing freshmen and marginal upperclassmen. That is the entire point. If you aren't going to play freshmen, why even recruit them?
User avatar
mathguy
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2046
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:27 pm
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by mathguy »

alathIN wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:17 am I keep thinking that managing immature egos may be Stackhouse's Achilles heel. As a player he was a consummate "professional" in the true sense of the word. As a G-league coach he would have been working with players who were a few years older, and who had been taught the hard way that they are not talented enough to just roll out of bed into the NBA all star game. From a distance admittedly, it looks like Stackhouse may not have much tolerance for a freshman who acts like, well, a freshman.
I can see this. I made a post somewhere about how Stackhouse's intensity could get him seen as a lunatic by the wrong player. I can easily imagine him expecting guys to act the right way, and think he just needs to teach them to play ... and not really understanding that he has to teach some guys how to act too.
User avatar
Foreverhopeful
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1781
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:15 pm
Location: Franklin, TN
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 43 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Foreverhopeful »

I don't know about that. I think the parents of the freshmen were very happy with how Stack was developing and handling their sons, from what I was told. Maybe a few of the players themselves didn't feel the same way, but I know at least one Dad who completely understood that his son wasn't ready for prime time yet- but yet he is one we are losing.
Jason94
Admiral
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Jason94 »

alathIN wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:17 am
Jason94 wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:42 pm
Obvious wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:46 pm

If we’re a developers program wouldn’t it be a contradiction to play freshmen so much? After all, we will have wasted development on the upper classmen. What are we developing for? To win games with upperclassmen. I’m not saying which is the right way to run a program. But developing guys into 3-4 years players is going to limit the freshmen playing time.
I don't think that it would be a contradiction - you don't have to play the freshmen 30 mpg, but you should play them some and do so with consistency. And while we were not playing our freshmen, we were giving a lot of PT to players who are not going to be back next season and in some cases had pretty low ceilings. Maybe Shelby was completely misranked by everyone and is simply a recruiting miss. But if he ends up turning into something at another school, I'll always wonder if he might have stayed had he had some of the minutes that were given to Thomas or Ansong. Shelby was either a recruiting miss or someone CJS buried behind marginal SEC players.

Previous coaches would fill our roster depth of talented upperclassmen teams with freshmen, and figure out ways to get them PT, even if it weren't in the most critical moments. Jermaine Beal struggled as a freshman but got around 16 mpg overall, and due to taking his lumps as a freshman had a pretty large jump as a sophomore. I expect Smith will do the same.

If we are going to be more active in the portal that is fine, but we shouldn't be playing marginal upperclassmen over freshmen with higher ceilings IMO. I'm positive that Lang, West and Roberts, if given playing time will make freshmen mistakes at times next season and will do things that are not what the coach wants. But I'm nearly as positive that they will be much better as sophomores if given consistent playing time. The good thing is that while we lose Wrigth and Robbins, we also lose all of our marginal players as well - Thomas, Ansong and the version of Stute that couldn't hit a three. CJS shouldn't bring in a marginal wing and give that player PT over Roberts or West and shouldn't bring in a marginal post player and play them over Lang.
Two thoughts to add to this discussion:

Lack of blowout wins is a contributor to this problem. If we're up 25 points with 8m to go, playing a freshman who makes 2 good plays and 3 mistakes isn't the end of the world. If every game goes down to the wire you don't have the breathing room for those learning experiences.

I keep thinking that managing immature egos may be Stackhouse's Achilles heel. As a player he was a consummate "professional" in the true sense of the word. As a G-league coach he would have been working with players who were a few years older, and who had been taught the hard way that they are not talented enough to just roll out of bed into the NBA all star game. From a distance admittedly, it looks like Stackhouse may not have much tolerance for a freshman who acts like, well, a freshman.
I don't know that I buy the lack of blowout excuse. For instance, we beat Alabama A&M by 8, which was a close game. But did we really need to play Thomas 29 minutes or QMB 24 minutes to pull that game out? We also limited Robbins to 14 minutes in that game, Lawrence to 17 and Wright to 22, so it wasn't like we were playing our best players 35 minutes and couldn't spare any to go to freshmen. Shelby did actually get to play in that game, but Dort nor Dia played at all. Playing freshmen more against Grambling wouldn't have resulted in any worse of an outcome. Early on, we gave a lot of minutes to players did not play very well or weren't going to be the drivers of this season nor future seasons - QMB, Thomas and Ansong. And at times, we did so not only at the expense of developing freshmen, but also by benching three of our best players - Wright, Robbins and Manjon.

I think it is all good as a couple of the players who we played a lot of minutes at the expense of freshmen minutes will be gone, and a lot of minutes will be available at the wing spot even if Lawrence returns (which I am optimistic that he will). Roberts and West should get good minutes next season.
Jason94
Admiral
Posts: 6121
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Take deep breath, step back from ledge

Post by Jason94 »

Foreverhopeful wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:31 am I don't know about that. I think the parents of the freshmen were very happy with how Stack was developing and handling their sons, from what I was told. Maybe a few of the players themselves didn't feel the same way, but I know at least one Dad who completely understood that his son wasn't ready for prime time yet- but yet he is one we are losing.
There is a line between not being ready and not really being given any sort of opportunity. I can see Shelby not being ready for a lot of minutes, but at the end of the season when we had a lot of injury issues and had Wright having to play the post, shelby had to sit while a player in front of him (Thomas) scores 15 points over the final 8 games in 139 minutes on awful percentages from the floor. Shelby cannot be faulted for thinking perhaps he would not be given a chance.
Locked Previous topicNext topic