OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

[charlestonalum]

Saban it seems would have suspended Miller: Oats not. So we have 2 coaches at the same school who view things differently. Seems to me that Saban is on the right side here, but that is my opinion and others obviously have a contrary opinion and it is their privilege to do so. The President and AD are now in a more difficult spot than before because of Saban's comments that are commendable. Saban is known for being very cautious in comments to the press. He meant to send a message, it seems.

[VUaskew]

by the way, how does an 18 year old college freshman as easily identifiable as Miller get to go out clubbing where alcohol is involved in the wee ours of the morning anyway?

I remember several years ago Mario Moore got suspended for what was likely a false positive on a drug test for cocaine. It took Julian Terrell intervening on his behalf to change Stallings mind about kicking him off the team. In light of that, he still suspended Moore for a few games, stating that "he didn't do his best". He never publicly said that he thought MM failed the test, but believed in some sort of accountability to do your best. CKS and MM got through it and life moved on.

So, no, don't go feeling sorry for Miller, and thinking he was completely without some certain responsibility in all of this. What is he, Ray Lewis? I bet every one of you thought of him as some kind of thug back in the day, even though he was never convicted of anything. I don't feel for Miller at all.

Choose better friends, don't go out to clubs and drink underage, respect the unique position you're in by being a Top 2 pick in the draft, make a public statement to the effect of how terrible you feel. Why the heck would you want to screw that up?

I still say if it had been and end of the bench kind of guy he'd have been long gone.

[commadore]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Just so we're clear: Darius Miles was a player for Alabama, sitting out with an injury. He has been charged with capital murder, although he didn't fire the gun. Michael Davis, who was not affiliated with the team at all (other than being Miles' friend), is the one who shot and killed Jamea Harris. He also has been charged with capital murder. Davis wasn't the only one who fired a gun and in fact was wounded himself--Harris' boyfriend, Cedric Johnson, shot him. The attorneys for Davis and Miles claim that Davis shot wildly in self-defense. That's going to be tricky, given that Miles did text Brandon Miller, asking him to bring the gun. But unless there's evidence otherwise, it's possible that Cedric Johnson started the shooting and Davis shot back, killing Jamea Harris by mistake. (The police have clearly decided that Davis shot first because they haven't charged Johnson. They may have CCTV footage that shows who shot first, but simply haven't released it to the press.)

Regarding the text... Miller was driving when that text was sent to him. So he didn't see it until later, after he'd fled the scene of the shooting. And the gun was already in the back seat of the car he was driving, without him knowing that it had been hidden there.

According to Miller's lawyer, this is what happened from Miller's point of view: Miles asked him to come pick him up from the club. Miller got in his car and drove to the club. When Miller arrived, he parked his car. Then Johnson pulled up immediately behind him in an SUV to continue an argument with Davis and Miller from earlier. (Miller didn't block the SUV, as some have been claiming. If he had, then the police could've charged him for aiding Miles.) Miles retrieved a gun that he had hidden under his coat in the backseat of Miller's car, which was the first point at which Miller knew the gun was there. Miles gave the gun to Davis and then Davis and Johnson exchanged fire. During that exchange, Jamea Harris was killed by Davis and Davis was wounded Johnson. Miller's vehicle was struck by gunfire, so he left immediately. It wasn't until later that he saw Miles' text. When Miller found out that someone had been hurt and that the police wanted to question him, he cooperated. He gave them access to his phone contents and allowed them to search his cars. Again, according to his lawyer this is all corroborated by witnesses and video footage.

That's why the police haven't charged Miller and why Alabama hasn't disciplined him: He went to pick up his teammate and drove away when bullets started flying. I don't really see that as bad judgment, personally, nor as grounds for a suspension.

Darius Miles, however, is a completely different story. Despite what some of you are saying, he didn't shoot anybody. But he did give his friend the gun--which in Alabama means that he can be tried for murder. I'm sure his attorney will claim he did it out of self-defense, again pointing out that Davis was shot by Johnson and that it was Johnson who drove to the scene to confront Miles and Davis. But that text is damning. So it does seem likely that an Alabama player did provide a gun to the person who killed Jamea Harris. It just wasn't Brandon Miller.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Look, I have no love lost for Alabama, but the claims in the thread about the cover-up and lack of integrity and the like are really befuddling me. Maybe I have a different standard that others, but as the facts appear to be at this time, I have a hard time seeing why Miller should not be playing. I have a hard time seeing why he should have ever been suspended from the team.

Also say thanks. One additional fact: Since Harris was IN the car, and Davis fired into the car, it is, in Alabama, a capital offense.

[commadore]

"Regarding the text... Miller was driving when that text was sent to him. So he didn't see it until later, after he'd fled the scene of the shooting. And the gun was already in the back seat of the car he was driving, without him knowing that it had been hidden there."

not to argue the basic points you make, twosaints, but it is naive to assume that a person (especially a young one) doesn't see texts while they're driving. that's not the world we are living in, unfortunately.

It is also naive to believe that Miller was driving around for some unspecified amount of time with a gun in his car and didn't know it.

If the facts are as TwoSaints described (and I have no reason not to believe so ... at the very least he seems more informed about the situation than I am) then I completely understand why Miller wasn't arrested, nor should he be.

But, whether or not he saw the text, his friend was asking him to bring a gun to him. There certainly must be questions about when was asked to pick Miles up that he was in the car and then later texted about the gun. He was also driving around with a loaded gun in his back seat ... you kinda have to know tht sort of thing.

I still kind of feel like, at the bare minimum, Miller needed to sit for a game ... or a half of a game that Bama likely would've won anyway ... and be told "well, if your friend is getting you in trouble, you need to hang out with better friends .. even if they are a teammate".

I absolutely would have sat him for a game after the pat down in warmups. Bare minimum I would've pulled him from the starting lineup for that.

Bama doesn't appear to have done anything illegal. They may not have even done anything unethical per se. But they really haven't given the impression they are doing things honestly and appropriately either.

Bovine feces. Do you look into your back seat every time you get into the car? Hell, I could have a gatlin gun in my back seat right now and not know it. To say he did is either naive or downright lying to yourself.

[mathguy]

Bovine feces. Do you look into your back seat every time you get into the car? Hell, I could have a gatlin gun in my back seat right now and not know it. To say he did is either naive or downright lying to yourself.

Right now the only thing in the bask seat of my car is the back seat. So ... yeah.

I suppose it is possible my daughter has a gun I don't know about and left it in a sweatshirt, which would be a similar case. But you know, I think I raised my daughter a little better than that.

So at the end of the day, Miller was hanging out with a person who felt comfortable asking him to bring a gun to him. So even if I believe that Miller didn't know the gun was there (which I still only buy as 25% likely at best), I am still absolutely OK with what I said. Oats should have sat him or suspended him or made some disciplinary action if just to say "Dude, you're going to be an NBA lottery pick, make better choices in who you hang around with".

[commadore]

Bovine feces. Do you look into your back seat every time you get into the car? Hell, I could have a gatlin gun in my back seat right now and not know it. To say he did is either naive or downright lying to yourself.

Right now the only thing in the bask seat of my car is the back seat. So ... yeah.

I suppose it is possible my daughter has a gun I don't know about and left it in a sweatshirt, which would be a similar case. But you know, I think I raised my daughter a little better than that.

So at the end of the day, Miller was hanging out with a person who felt comfortable asking him to bring a gun to him. So even if I believe that Miller didn't know the gun was there (which I still only buy as 25% likely at best), I am still absolutely OK with what I said. Oats should have sat him or suspended him or made some disciplinary action if just to say "Dude, you're going to be an NBA lottery pick, make better choices in who you hang around with".

Oh I totally agree he should have been suspended until all the facts were in. Oates was an idiot and Saben is right that " wrong place at the wrong time" isn't acceptable. You are also correct that Miller shouldn't be hanging with people like that. None of that makes him guilty of anything but bad judgment though. And I loomed and found there is a blanket (to keep the dog from ripping the leather), an umbrella, two masks, and a partially consumed bottle of water in my back seat. The blanket was the only thing I was sure of and have no idea where the water came from.

[Versus75]

That’s why I drive a Smart car. No back seat.

[Obvious]

I’m going to be off topic here: what if Miller had been randomly pulled over before the shooting. Cops ask to search his car for no reason (yes that happens). They find a loaded gun in the back seat. The traffic stop takes place around 2 am. What does this look like? It substitute the gun for weed. Another player leaves his stash in Millers car. Cops ask “how did the drugs get there?” Kid says honestly “I don’t know”
No chance a cop believes that. Does Miller get charged with drug possession? More than likely yes. The law is a little silly. And for those that will claim “it’s not illegal to carry a loaded gun” or whatever. What is safer? If a friend leaves weed in my car and I get pulled over. Does the cop care that my buddy “left it”
Shouldn’t be hanging out with the wrong people.

[VUaskew]

If this was your son, would y'all be so cavalier about it? I'd be freaking the heck out trying to understand what my son was doing consorting with such characters. I wonder what Miller's parents think.

[vandy05]

If this was your son, would y'all be so cavalier about it? I'd be freaking the heck out trying to understand what my son was doing consorting with such characters. I wonder what Miller's parents think.

I would say that the way I treat my kids and interrogate them is different from how I want the law to treat them and interrogate them. I tell my kids all the time that I don't have to be fair. But when it comes to the law, the law has to be fair. So I may read him the riot act, but still think there is no way he should be punished by anyone for anything.

[FayetteDore]

I think it's credible/possible that he didn't know the gun was in the back seat.
I DON'T find it credible that he didn't see the text until after the episode, because he was driving. That totally defies the behavior of just about everyone I know, regardless of their age, including myself. Especially when you can tell Siri to read you the text. Or it flashes up on your vehicle display. Or you can hold the phone up and glance at it while you're driving. Do any of you know anyone under 30 who is not plastered to their phone 24/7.

[Obvious]

I think it's credible/possible that he didn't know the gun was in the back seat.
I DON'T find it credible that he didn't see the text until after the episode, because he was driving. That totally defies the behavior of just about everyone I know, regardless of their age, including myself. Especially when you can tell Siri to read you the text. Or it flashes up on your vehicle display. Or you can hold the phone up and glance at it while you're driving. Do any of you know anyone under 30 who is not plastered to their phone 24/7.

The Apple Watch makes it even easier

[TwoSaints]

If this was your son, would y'all be so cavalier about it? I'd be freaking the heck out trying to understand what my son was doing consorting with such characters. I wonder what Miller's parents think.

Well… Something else that nobody seems to have mentioned is that, while Miller is a one-and-done star, he was also a freshman who had played in about 10-12 games. Miles was a junior. In a lot of programs, one-and-done HS All-Americans still are forced by the coach and team to go through all the hazing, extra chores, and embarrassing traditions that all freshmen go through. There’s been no indication anywhere that Miller and Miles were particularly close. So the most likely explanation is that Miller (and other frosh) were being used by Miles (and other upperclassmen) as a free bus service. I saw a lot of that at Vanderbilt, when I lived on the same floor of Lupton as about half the freshmen on the football team—including Leonard Coleman and Punkin Williams, who were star recruits. I also them do it to new recruits in my last two years, when I worked at Sub Station. (It was across the street from Carmichael and a standard place for the athletes to hang out.) Freshmen chauffeuring upperclassmen was a common sight. And I knew players like Leonard, Norman Jordan, and Ricky Anderson well enough to know that they weren’t especially close to some of those younger guys. So, y’know, Occam’s Razor...

[jpmando]

The tenor of this discussion is really unbelievable to me.

Bravo Saban for showing some guts and moral fiber.

[vandy05]

I think it's credible/possible that he didn't know the gun was in the back seat.
I DON'T find it credible that he didn't see the text until after the episode, because he was driving. That totally defies the behavior of just about everyone I know, regardless of their age, including myself. Especially when you can tell Siri to read you the text. Or it flashes up on your vehicle display. Or you can hold the phone up and glance at it while you're driving. Do any of you know anyone under 30 who is not plastered to their phone 24/7.

I don't find it particularly plausible either. But that is what the process is for. So to me, the quest is if the player should sit while the process and investigation play out. For me, the answer is no with the information I currently have. But I also believe that the Tuscaloosa police would know by now if they could prove that Miller had read the text. If they can't prove it, then maybe they can't charge him. At least to me, its not an open and shut decision on disciplinary action.