OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

[Obvious]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

[doubledore9603]

Nick Saban making a statement:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... rong-time/

[commadore]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Because people are blaming him. Maybe they should be talking about the guy who DID kill her. I know the father of the state trooper who is assigned to Miller for protection. My friend is an Auburn fan. He said Miller getting daily death threats, threatening letters and notes, and has had stuff thrown at him. Anyone think he deserves that?

[Obvious]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Because people are blaming him. Maybe they should be talking about the guy who DID kill her. I know the father of the state trooper who is assigned to Miller for protection. My friend is an Auburn fan. He said Miller getting daily death threats, threatening letters and notes, and has had stuff thrown at him. Anyone think he deserves that?

The constant mockery of the situation from the players and fans doesn’t help his case. I have seen multiple videos of Alabama players making gun gestures in the locker room, patting Miller down in warmups, and blasting gun violence music at games. There is no place for that in the game or on campus. A role model needs to take the reins of the program and set expectations for them. Both sides of the situation are getting out of hand. Sensible people in charge could lessen the hurt and disgrace it has caused for the victim.

Nick Saban spoke today about indefinitely suspending a football player for drug charges until all evidence is uncovered. In his words “there’s no such thing as being in the wrong place at the wrong time.” And that we have to live with our choices. I have much respect for Nick Saban and admire how he runs a college sports program.

[Obvious]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... -time/amp/

Here’s a link to Saban’s comments today. Seems to be a jab at Nate Oats.

[Obvious]

Nick Saban making a statement:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... rong-time/

Sorry I didn’t see this post and I posted my own link.

[commadore]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Because people are blaming him. Maybe they should be talking about the guy who DID kill her. I know the father of the state trooper who is assigned to Miller for protection. My friend is an Auburn fan. He said Miller getting daily death threats, threatening letters and notes, and has had stuff thrown at him. Anyone think he deserves that?

The constant mockery of the situation from the players and fans doesn’t help his case. I have seen multiple videos of Alabama players making gun gestures in the locker room, patting Miller down in warmups, and blasting gun violence music at games. There is no place for that in the game or on campus. A role model needs to take the reins of the program and set expectations for them. Both sides of the situation are getting out of hand. Sensible people in charge could lessen the hurt and disgrace it has caused for the victim.

Nick Saban spoke today about indefinitely suspending a football player for drug charges until all evidence is uncovered. In his words “there’s no such thing as being in the wrong place at the wrong time.” And that we have to live with our choices. I have much respect for Nick Saban and admire how he runs a college sports program.

Finally, a point with which I can totally agree.

[charlestonalum]

Finally some decency out of Alabama athletic community: good for Saban.

[mathguy]

I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Honestly, because when it comes to Alabama's integrity, the Miller situation is what's most relevant.

MIles (allegedly) shot and killed someone. He has been arrested. He is in the justice system. He is not with the team. As far as I am aware, Alabama/their coach/their AD has not attempted to pull any strings, or have him play for the team while awaiting trial, or pressure the DA or anything like that. They've said he (allegedly) committed a crime and needs to go through the process for that.

Bad stuff happens at every program. True, it's not usually murder, but bad stuff happens at every school. Our football program had a rape scandal a few years back ... we cooperated with the Nashville PD, removed the individual from the team, and if I recall correctly (I may be mixing scandals here) didn't we even suspend a wide receiver for a game or two because we *thought* he *might* have been involved, but ultimately he was exonerated? Could be wrong, but I feel like I remember something like that happening.

The proof of Vandy's integrity wasn't in that a scandal happened - it was in how we responded to it.

Ditto for Alabama. The way they responded to the shooter was appropriate (as far as I am aware) ... but since he was arrested fairly quickly they didn't really have much choice in the matter. The Miller situation ... and the way things keep coming out that Alabama knew a long time ago and ignored ... and the way the team has done things like fake pat-downs during warmups with nary a suspension or even a benching ... those are the things that put Alabama's integrity in question.

Student actions put the student's integrity in question, not the schools. The school's response to student actions is what puts the school's integrity up for debate.

[VUaskew]

Exactly ^^

It was a classic case of putting any National Championship dreams ahead of integrity. Oats could have suspended Miller for a game or two and then given everyone (UA, TPD) a chance to respond. But NO, he tried to cover it up.

Miller, while not doing anything legally wrong, exercise very poor judgement. Wasn't he quoted as saying, "there's one in the head", meaning it was loaded? What did he think was going to happen?

If Oats had enough sack, he could and would have prevented the death threats to Miller and the need for a bodyguard, but in this case, inaction proved to be the catalyst, and painted a very callous picture of UA and the program itself. P*ss on them. Hope they lose on behalf of all the schools that care to do the right thing.

Nobody is a victim here, except for the poor woman that got shot and killed.

[dcdore]

Student actions put the student's integrity in question, not the schools. The school's response to student actions is what puts the school's integrity up for debate.

This

[docdore]

Exactly ^^

It was a classic case of putting any National Championship dreams ahead of integrity. Oats could have suspended Miller for a game or two and then given everyone (UA, TPD) a chance to respond. But NO, he tried to cover it up.

Miller, while not doing anything legally wrong, exercise very poor judgement. Wasn't he quoted as saying, "there's one in the head", meaning it was loaded? What did he think was going to happen?

If Oats had enough sack, he could and would have prevented the death threats to Miller and the need for a bodyguard, but in this case, inaction proved to be the catalyst, and painted a very callous picture of UA and the program itself. P*ss on them. Hope they lose on behalf of all the schools that care to do the right thing.

Nobody is a victim here, except for the poor woman that got shot and killed.

....and her motherless child (and other loved ones).

[TwoSaints]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Just so we're clear: Darius Miles was a player for Alabama, sitting out with an injury. He has been charged with capital murder, although he didn't fire the gun. Michael Davis, who was not affiliated with the team at all (other than being Miles' friend), is the one who shot and killed Jamea Harris. He also has been charged with capital murder. Davis wasn't the only one who fired a gun and in fact was wounded himself--Harris' boyfriend, Cedric Johnson, shot him. The attorneys for Davis and Miles claim that Davis shot wildly in self-defense. That's going to be tricky, given that Miles did text Brandon Miller, asking him to bring the gun. But unless there's evidence otherwise, it's possible that Cedric Johnson started the shooting and Davis shot back, killing Jamea Harris by mistake. (The police have clearly decided that Davis shot first because they haven't charged Johnson. They may have CCTV footage that shows who shot first, but simply haven't released it to the press.)

Regarding the text... Miller was driving when that text was sent to him. So he didn't see it until later, after he'd fled the scene of the shooting. And the gun was already in the back seat of the car he was driving, without him knowing that it had been hidden there.

According to Miller's lawyer, this is what happened from Miller's point of view: Miles asked him to come pick him up from the club. Miller got in his car and drove to the club. When Miller arrived, he parked his car. Then Johnson pulled up immediately behind him in an SUV to continue an argument with Davis and Miller from earlier. (Miller didn't block the SUV, as some have been claiming. If he had, then the police could've charged him for aiding Miles.) Miles retrieved a gun that he had hidden under his coat in the backseat of Miller's car, which was the first point at which Miller knew the gun was there. Miles gave the gun to Davis and then Davis and Johnson exchanged fire. During that exchange, Jamea Harris was killed by Davis and Davis was wounded Johnson. Miller's vehicle was struck by gunfire, so he left immediately. It wasn't until later that he saw Miles' text. When Miller found out that someone had been hurt and that the police wanted to question him, he cooperated. He gave them access to his phone contents and allowed them to search his cars. Again, according to his lawyer this is all corroborated by witnesses and video footage.

That's why the police haven't charged Miller and why Alabama hasn't disciplined him: He went to pick up his teammate and drove away when bullets started flying. I don't really see that as bad judgment, personally, nor as grounds for a suspension.

Darius Miles, however, is a completely different story. Despite what some of you are saying, he didn't shoot anybody. But he did give his friend the gun--which in Alabama means that he can be tried for murder. I'm sure his attorney will claim he did it out of self-defense, again pointing out that Davis was shot by Johnson and that it was Johnson who drove to the scene to confront Miles and Davis. But that text is damning. So it does seem likely that an Alabama player did provide a gun to the person who killed Jamea Harris. It just wasn't Brandon Miller.

[vandy05]

I don’t think bed checks are necessary. There’s a huge jump in circumstances from not being in your room to shooting a person. Also how is the fact that an Alabama basketball player murdered someone being forgotten. This isn’t totally about Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller played a role whether innocent or not. I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Just so we're clear: Darius Miles was a player for Alabama, sitting out with an injury. He has been charged with capital murder, although he didn't fire the gun. Michael Davis, who was not affiliated with the team at all (other than being Miles' friend), is the one who shot and killed Jamea Harris. He also has been charged with capital murder. Davis wasn't the only one who fired a gun and in fact was wounded himself--Harris' boyfriend, Cedric Johnson, shot him. The attorneys for Davis and Miles claim that Davis shot wildly in self-defense. That's going to be tricky, given that Miles did text Brandon Miller, asking him to bring the gun. But unless there's evidence otherwise, it's possible that Cedric Johnson started the shooting and Davis shot back, killing Jamea Harris by mistake. (The police have clearly decided that Davis shot first because they haven't charged Johnson. They may have CCTV footage that shows who shot first, but simply haven't released it to the press.)

Regarding the text... Miller was driving when that text was sent to him. So he didn't see it until later, after he'd fled the scene of the shooting. And the gun was already in the back seat of the car he was driving, without him knowing that it had been hidden there.

According to Miller's lawyer, this is what happened from Miller's point of view: Miles asked him to come pick him up from the club. Miller got in his car and drove to the club. When Miller arrived, he parked his car. Then Johnson pulled up immediately behind him in an SUV to continue an argument with Davis and Miller from earlier. (Miller didn't block the SUV, as some have been claiming. If he had, then the police could've charged him for aiding Miles.) Miles retrieved a gun that he had hidden under his coat in the backseat of Miller's car, which was the first point at which Miller knew the gun was there. Miles gave the gun to Davis and then Davis and Johnson exchanged fire. During that exchange, Jamea Harris was killed by Davis and Davis was wounded Johnson. Miller's vehicle was struck by gunfire, so he left immediately. It wasn't until later that he saw Miles' text. When Miller found out that someone had been hurt and that the police wanted to question him, he cooperated. He gave them access to his phone contents and allowed them to search his cars. Again, according to his lawyer this is all corroborated by witnesses and video footage.

That's why the police haven't charged Miller and why Alabama hasn't disciplined him: He went to pick up his teammate and drove away when bullets started flying. I don't really see that as bad judgment, personally, nor as grounds for a suspension.

Darius Miles, however, is a completely different story. Despite what some of you are saying, he didn't shoot anybody. But he did give his friend the gun--which in Alabama means that he can be tried for murder. I'm sure his attorney will claim he did it out of self-defense, again pointing out that Davis was shot by Johnson and that it was Johnson who drove to the scene to confront Miles and Davis. But that text is damning. So it does seem likely that an Alabama player did provide a gun to the person who killed Jamea Harris. It just wasn't Brandon Miller.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Look, I have no love lost for Alabama, but the claims in the thread about the cover-up and lack of integrity and the like are really befuddling me. Maybe I have a different standard that others, but as the facts appear to be at this time, I have a hard time seeing why Miller should not be playing. I have a hard time seeing why he should have ever been suspended from the team.

[docdore]

"Regarding the text... Miller was driving when that text was sent to him. So he didn't see it until later, after he'd fled the scene of the shooting. And the gun was already in the back seat of the car he was driving, without him knowing that it had been hidden there."

not to argue the basic points you make, twosaints, but it is naive to assume that a person (especially a young one) doesn't see texts while they're driving. that's not the world we are living in, unfortunately.

[mathguy]

"Regarding the text... Miller was driving when that text was sent to him. So he didn't see it until later, after he'd fled the scene of the shooting. And the gun was already in the back seat of the car he was driving, without him knowing that it had been hidden there."

not to argue the basic points you make, twosaints, but it is naive to assume that a person (especially a young one) doesn't see texts while they're driving. that's not the world we are living in, unfortunately.

It is also naive to believe that Miller was driving around for some unspecified amount of time with a gun in his car and didn't know it.

If the facts are as TwoSaints described (and I have no reason not to believe so ... at the very least he seems more informed about the situation than I am) then I completely understand why Miller wasn't arrested, nor should he be.

But, whether or not he saw the text, his friend was asking him to bring a gun to him. There certainly must be questions about when was asked to pick Miles up that he was in the car and then later texted about the gun. He was also driving around with a loaded gun in his back seat ... you kinda have to know tht sort of thing.

I still kind of feel like, at the bare minimum, Miller needed to sit for a game ... or a half of a game that Bama likely would've won anyway ... and be told "well, if your friend is getting you in trouble, you need to hang out with better friends .. even if they are a teammate".

I absolutely would have sat him for a game after the pat down in warmups. Bare minimum I would've pulled him from the starting lineup for that.

Bama doesn't appear to have done anything illegal. They may not have even done anything unethical per se. But they really haven't given the impression they are doing things honestly and appropriately either.

[baseball1234]

Miller was "involved", knowingly or unknowingly in a killing. IMHO, UA should have suspended Miller with a statement that it appeared that he was not involved but that the university was awaiting corroboration. Then re-instate a day or two later.

[Obvious]

I don’t understand why when we question Alabama’s integrity because one of their players DID kill someone, people start debating Miller’s innocence.

Honestly, because when it comes to Alabama's integrity, the Miller situation is what's most relevant.

MIles (allegedly) shot and killed someone. He has been arrested. He is in the justice system. He is not with the team. As far as I am aware, Alabama/their coach/their AD has not attempted to pull any strings, or have him play for the team while awaiting trial, or pressure the DA or anything like that. They've said he (allegedly) committed a crime and needs to go through the process for that.

Bad stuff happens at every program. True, it's not usually murder, but bad stuff happens at every school. Our football program had a rape scandal a few years back ... we cooperated with the Nashville PD, removed the individual from the team, and if I recall correctly (I may be mixing scandals here) didn't we even suspend a wide receiver for a game or two because we *thought* he *might* have been involved, but ultimately he was exonerated? Could be wrong, but I feel like I remember something like that happening.

The proof of Vandy's integrity wasn't in that a scandal happened - it was in how we responded to it.

Ditto for Alabama. The way they responded to the shooter was appropriate (as far as I am aware) ... but since he was arrested fairly quickly they didn't really have much choice in the matter. The Miller situation ... and the way things keep coming out that Alabama knew a long time ago and ignored ... and the way the team has done things like fake pat-downs during warmups with nary a suspension or even a benching ... those are the things that put Alabama's integrity in question.

Student actions put the student's integrity in question, not the schools. The school's response to student actions is what puts the school's integrity up for debate.

The point I’m trying to make is not whether Miller is innocent or not. I think the school should’ve got out a head of it rather than a police report coming a month later about how Miller was there. The “integrity” of the program is in question when they were hoping millers involvement would go unnoticed. I’m not charging Miller because that’s not for me to do. I can be critical of how it was handled. Just show the world you care, that’s all.

[Dickeys Nightmare]

He should have been suspended for the pat down. In a just world he wouldn’t get to play for making fun of a murder.

[Obvious]

I’m hoping a team of mature upper upperclassmen can knock them out.