When turnovers don't occur

[Jason94]

The UK game is what will generally happen. From an offensive standpoint, that was actually probably one of our best games - it was played at a slow pace, but we were able to score over a PPP against a very good UK defense. But when our opponent doesn't turn the ball over, our defense will tend to get shredded, as it did tonight. This was our second worst defensive game of the season, 2nd only to the SMU game (a game where SMU also didn't turn the ball over). Because of this it didn't matter that we didn't turn the ball over ourselves or avoided sending them to the line. No turnovers plus being completely dominated on the boards (42-26) means we were probably fortunate to only lose by 12.

While we have improved, we aren't in the same class as UK, not as we are currently made up with zero depth in the post and noone near the talent of Tshiebwe, who might be the best player in the country. But this is not a typical UK team that has a ton of talented freshmen and a massive front line that blocks a ton of shots. From a size standpoint, this is more like a mid-major all star team than the team that won the 2012 championship.

Not too much to say beyond that - without Chatman healthy and Robbins we are not likely to win many more games than we did last season. Really wish our luck would change because this stinks.

[Vandamnit]

And to be fair, this is one of the best Kentucky teams I have seen in a while, especially in terms of team play and assists. While they usually are all auditioning for the next level playing individual ball, this group was more mature and played a cohesive style. They exposed things we know about our team, and I appreciate Jason reminding us that there were some good pieces here (esp offense). We will see this KY team go far in the tourney, I would think.

[AuricGoldfinger]

I feel like the last two games have given us a preview of what to expect the remainder of the season. Opponents will attack the basket with impunity. Outside of QMB, we have zero inside presence. Some of the mismatches in the lane last night were almost comical.

Meanwhile, outside of QMB and Pippen (most of the time), we have a staggering lack of consistency. I have no idea who's going to show up from one game to the next.

[Jason94]

I feel like the last two games have given us a preview of what to expect the remainder of the season. Opponents will attack the basket with impunity. Outside of QMB, we have zero inside presence. Some of the mismatches in the lane last night were almost comical.

Meanwhile, outside of QMB and Pippen (most of the time), we have a staggering lack of consistency. I have no idea who's going to show up from one game to the next.

We are so reliant upon the three point shot that this will definitely be the case for both Thomas and Stute. They will each have games where they are locked in (like Thomas last night) and games where they can't hit a thing. This is normal for the three point shot, but their main issues are that they do not contribute significantly on offense in other ways, whereas Pippen might miss his threes but make it to the line 10 times or hit a few layups and end up with 18 points. Neither Stute or Thomas are getting to 15 points without hitting at least 3-4 threes.

Even our 2007 team which started a 6'-4" three point specialist at PF had more inside depth. Even ignoring that Neltner was a solid post player (if undersized at the 5), we had JeJuan Brown and Ted Skuchas doing post stuff as well as Metcalf if needed in an emergency. I don't know that we've ever been so thin in the post as we are this year. That comes from losing 4 post players from last year's roster and really only replacing two of them, and then suffering an injury.

[MrMemorial]

I feel like the last two games have given us a preview of what to expect the remainder of the season. Opponents will attack the basket with impunity. Outside of QMB, we have zero inside presence. Some of the mismatches in the lane last night were almost comical.

Meanwhile, outside of QMB and Pippen (most of the time), we have a staggering lack of consistency. I have no idea who's going to show up from one game to the next.

We are so reliant upon the three point shot that this will definitely be the case for both Thomas and Stute. They will each have games where they are locked in (like Thomas last night) and games where they can't hit a thing. This is normal for the three point shot, but their main issues are that they do not contribute significantly on offense in other ways, whereas Pippen might miss his threes but make it to the line 10 times or hit a few layups and end up with 18 points. Neither Stute or Thomas are getting to 15 points without hitting at least 3-4 threes.

Even our 2007 team which started a 6'-4" three point specialist at PF had more inside depth. Even ignoring that Neltner was a solid post player (if undersized at the 5), we had JeJuan Brown and Ted Skuchas doing post stuff as well as Metcalf if needed in an emergency. I don't know that we've ever been so thin in the post as we are this year. That comes from losing 4 post players from last year's roster and really only replacing two of them, and then suffering an injury.

I watched the Ohio-Kent game on ESPN+ and didn't even notice that Odusipe played for 2 minutes. Didn't score. His numbers on the MAC level are about the same as they were at VU. Clevon's 8/6 per game (florida international) are around the same as here in 2019-2020. He was unfortunately very injury prone, so it was hard to know how effective for how much of a season you would see out of him. Obinna is playing much better with a big increase in playing time. He scored double figures vs both ranked teams St Joe's played.

[Nashmann]

I feel like the last two games have given us a preview of what to expect the remainder of the season. Opponents will attack the basket with impunity. Outside of QMB, we have zero inside presence. Some of the mismatches in the lane last night were almost comical.

Meanwhile, outside of QMB and Pippen (most of the time), we have a staggering lack of consistency. I have no idea who's going to show up from one game to the next.

We are so reliant upon the three point shot that this will definitely be the case for both Thomas and Stute. They will each have games where they are locked in (like Thomas last night) and games where they can't hit a thing. This is normal for the three point shot, but their main issues are that they do not contribute significantly on offense in other ways, whereas Pippen might miss his threes but make it to the line 10 times or hit a few layups and end up with 18 points. Neither Stute or Thomas are getting to 15 points without hitting at least 3-4 threes.

Even our 2007 team which started a 6'-4" three point specialist at PF had more inside depth. Even ignoring that Neltner was a solid post player (if undersized at the 5), we had JeJuan Brown and Ted Skuchas doing post stuff as well as Metcalf if needed in an emergency. I don't know that we've ever been so thin in the post as we are this year. That comes from losing 4 post players from last year's roster and really only replacing two of them, and then suffering an injury.

Our post play next year will be even worse unless QMB and/or Robbins stick around another year. Dort alone won't cut it.

[Jason94]

I feel like the last two games have given us a preview of what to expect the remainder of the season. Opponents will attack the basket with impunity. Outside of QMB, we have zero inside presence. Some of the mismatches in the lane last night were almost comical.

Meanwhile, outside of QMB and Pippen (most of the time), we have a staggering lack of consistency. I have no idea who's going to show up from one game to the next.

We are so reliant upon the three point shot that this will definitely be the case for both Thomas and Stute. They will each have games where they are locked in (like Thomas last night) and games where they can't hit a thing. This is normal for the three point shot, but their main issues are that they do not contribute significantly on offense in other ways, whereas Pippen might miss his threes but make it to the line 10 times or hit a few layups and end up with 18 points. Neither Stute or Thomas are getting to 15 points without hitting at least 3-4 threes.

Even our 2007 team which started a 6'-4" three point specialist at PF had more inside depth. Even ignoring that Neltner was a solid post player (if undersized at the 5), we had JeJuan Brown and Ted Skuchas doing post stuff as well as Metcalf if needed in an emergency. I don't know that we've ever been so thin in the post as we are this year. That comes from losing 4 post players from last year's roster and really only replacing two of them, and then suffering an injury.

I watched the Ohio-Kent game on ESPN+ and didn't even notice that Odusipe played for 2 minutes. Didn't score. His numbers on the MAC level are about the same as they were at VU. Clevon's 8/6 per game (florida international) are around the same as here in 2019-2020. He was unfortunately very injury prone, so it was hard to know how effective for how much of a season you would see out of him. Obinna is playing much better with a big increase in playing time. He scored double figures vs both ranked teams St Joe's played.

I'm not saying any of those guys were world beaters - they clearly weren't, but they do represent depth that we currently don't have. Even just one of those guys would have made at least some difference. I think we learned from CKS' time that a lot of the non-top rated center prospects will not pan out, but when one hits it can be special. Injuries are common as well, but it is better to have a number of these guys on the roster even of a couple are projects. Even guys who look useless after a year or two can bust out - they can take time to develop (see Purdue, Kornet, Ezeli).

[docdore]

We are so reliant upon the three point shot that this will definitely be the case for both Thomas and Stute. They will each have games where they are locked in (like Thomas last night) and games where they can't hit a thing. This is normal for the three point shot, but their main issues are that they do not contribute significantly on offense in other ways, whereas Pippen might miss his threes but make it to the line 10 times or hit a few layups and end up with 18 points. Neither Stute or Thomas are getting to 15 points without hitting at least 3-4 threes.

Even our 2007 team which started a 6'-4" three point specialist at PF had more inside depth. Even ignoring that Neltner was a solid post player (if undersized at the 5), we had JeJuan Brown and Ted Skuchas doing post stuff as well as Metcalf if needed in an emergency. I don't know that we've ever been so thin in the post as we are this year. That comes from losing 4 post players from last year's roster and really only replacing two of them, and then suffering an injury.

I watched the Ohio-Kent game on ESPN+ and didn't even notice that Odusipe played for 2 minutes. Didn't score. His numbers on the MAC level are about the same as they were at VU. Clevon's 8/6 per game (florida international) are around the same as here in 2019-2020. He was unfortunately very injury prone, so it was hard to know how effective for how much of a season you would see out of him. Obinna is playing much better with a big increase in playing time. He scored double figures vs both ranked teams St Joe's played.

I'm not saying any of those guys were world beaters - they clearly weren't, but they do represent depth that we currently don't have. Even just one of those guys would have made at least some difference. I think we learned from CKS' time that a lot of the non-top rated center prospects will not pan out, but when one hits it can be special. Injuries are common as well, but it is better to have a number of these guys on the roster even of a couple are projects. Even guys who look useless after a year or two can bust out - they can take time to develop (see Purdue, Kornet, Ezeli).

i'd cautiously add qmb to that list. although he isn't at the same level as those guys yet, the progress he's made in the last year is praiseworthy. hopefully some other team doesn't benefit from his new-found prowess next year.

[cjdore]

The UK game is what will generally happen. From an offensive standpoint, that was actually probably one of our best games - it was played at a slow pace, but we were able to score over a PPP against a very good UK defense. But when our opponent doesn't turn the ball over, our defense will tend to get shredded, as it did tonight. This was our second worst defensive game of the season, 2nd only to the SMU game (a game where SMU also didn't turn the ball over). Because of this it didn't matter that we didn't turn the ball over ourselves or avoided sending them to the line. No turnovers plus being completely dominated on the boards (42-26) means we were probably fortunate to only lose by 12.

While we have improved, we aren't in the same class as UK, not as we are currently made up with zero depth in the post and noone near the talent of Tshiebwe, who might be the best player in the country. But this is not a typical UK team that has a ton of talented freshmen and a massive front line that blocks a ton of shots. From a size standpoint, this is more like a mid-major all star team than the team that won the 2012 championship.

Not too much to say beyond that - without Chatman healthy and Robbins we are not likely to win many more games than we did last season. Really wish our luck would change because this stinks.

We were continually beat down low when playing man to man defense. I would have gone to a zone defense to force uk that that outside shots of more than 2 ft,

[MemorialMagic]

Our post play next year will be even worse unless QMB and/or Robbins stick around another year. Dort alone won't cut it.

Certainly need QMB to stick but Robbins is done after this year, isn't he? We actually add decent size next year with Dort, Smith and Dia at 6'9",6'8", and 6'8" respectively. I actually feel like our issue next year will be having 1-2 of Ty Lawrence, Gabe Dorsey, Shane Dezonie to develop in to consistent scoring/shooting threats.

I heard the other night that Dorsey is lights out in practice from 3. We will need a consistent outside threat or two. Pippen will leave a monster hole.

By the way, we need Pip to bring the kind of performance that he had Tuesday night every night. If he can become a consistent threat from 3, it's a whole new level.

[Jason94]

I watched the Ohio-Kent game on ESPN+ and didn't even notice that Odusipe played for 2 minutes. Didn't score. His numbers on the MAC level are about the same as they were at VU. Clevon's 8/6 per game (florida international) are around the same as here in 2019-2020. He was unfortunately very injury prone, so it was hard to know how effective for how much of a season you would see out of him. Obinna is playing much better with a big increase in playing time. He scored double figures vs both ranked teams St Joe's played.

I'm not saying any of those guys were world beaters - they clearly weren't, but they do represent depth that we currently don't have. Even just one of those guys would have made at least some difference. I think we learned from CKS' time that a lot of the non-top rated center prospects will not pan out, but when one hits it can be special. Injuries are common as well, but it is better to have a number of these guys on the roster even of a couple are projects. Even guys who look useless after a year or two can bust out - they can take time to develop (see Purdue, Kornet, Ezeli).

i'd cautiously add qmb to that list. although he isn't at the same level as those guys yet, the progress he's made in the last year is praiseworthy. hopefully some other team doesn't benefit from his new-found prowess next year.

I'd say maybe as well - QMB has been good - he is as good as anybody in letting the game come to him and not forcing things. Unfortunately, there he does this almost to the point of being too passive - his shooting rates are fantastic, but his shot percentage is so low, and those shots are being taken by other players who are not as successful. QMB is almost afraid of making a mistake, and therefore only takes shots where he has a very high chance of making, and that is why his FG% is so good. But being one of 5 players on the court, we would want him to be taking closer to 20% of the shots when he is on the floor. He is only taking 10% of the shots when he is on the floor, and in SEC play that number has dropped to 7%. QMB is a rare player who one could say needs to be more selfish, or at least be more aggressive about looking for his shots. There is no reason why Trey Thomas should have taken just 1 fewer 2 point shot than QMB. Thomas is 5-30 (17%) inside the arc in his career against the SEC. QMB is 18-24 (75%). This shot distribution makes zero sense.

[commadore]

Our post play next year will be even worse unless QMB and/or Robbins stick around another year. Dort alone won't cut it.

Certainly need QMB to stick but Robbins is done after this year, isn't he? We actually add decent size next year with Dort, Smith and Dia at 6'9",6'8", and 6'8" respectively. I actually feel like our issue next year will be having 1-2 of Ty Lawrence, Gabe Dorsey, Shane Dezonie to develop in to consistent scoring/shooting threats.

I heard the other night that Dorsey is lights out in practice from 3. We will need a consistent outside threat or two. Pippen will leave a monster hole.

By the way, we need Pip to bring the kind of performance that he had Tuesday night every night. If he can become a consistent threat from 3, it's a whole new level.

Pippen plays anywhere near that last Saturday and we slaughter USCe.

[Nashmann]

Our post play next year will be even worse unless QMB and/or Robbins stick around another year. Dort alone won't cut it.

Certainly need QMB to stick but Robbins is done after this year, isn't he? We actually add decent size next year with Dort, Smith and Dia at 6'9",6'8", and 6'8" respectively. I actually feel like our issue next year will be having 1-2 of Ty Lawrence, Gabe Dorsey, Shane Dezonie to develop in to consistent scoring/shooting threats.

I heard the other night that Dorsey is lights out in practice from 3. We will need a consistent outside threat or two. Pippen will leave a monster hole.

By the way, we need Pip to bring the kind of performance that he had Tuesday night every night. If he can become a consistent threat from 3, it's a whole new level.

Dia is 6'7" ....so we are depending on 3 Freshman two who are actually PF's to cover the 5....hmmmm

[MrMemorial]

We are so reliant upon the three point shot that this will definitely be the case for both Thomas and Stute. They will each have games where they are locked in (like Thomas last night) and games where they can't hit a thing. This is normal for the three point shot, but their main issues are that they do not contribute significantly on offense in other ways, whereas Pippen might miss his threes but make it to the line 10 times or hit a few layups and end up with 18 points. Neither Stute or Thomas are getting to 15 points without hitting at least 3-4 threes.

Even our 2007 team which started a 6'-4" three point specialist at PF had more inside depth. Even ignoring that Neltner was a solid post player (if undersized at the 5), we had JeJuan Brown and Ted Skuchas doing post stuff as well as Metcalf if needed in an emergency. I don't know that we've ever been so thin in the post as we are this year. That comes from losing 4 post players from last year's roster and really only replacing two of them, and then suffering an injury.

I watched the Ohio-Kent game on ESPN+ and didn't even notice that Odusipe played for 2 minutes. Didn't score. His numbers on the MAC level are about the same as they were at VU. Clevon's 8/6 per game (florida international) are around the same as here in 2019-2020. He was unfortunately very injury prone, so it was hard to know how effective for how much of a season you would see out of him. Obinna is playing much better with a big increase in playing time. He scored double figures vs both ranked teams St Joe's played.

I'm not saying any of those guys were world beaters - they clearly weren't, but they do represent depth that we currently don't have. Even just one of those guys would have made at least some difference. I think we learned from CKS' time that a lot of the non-top rated center prospects will not pan out, but when one hits it can be special. Injuries are common as well, but it is better to have a number of these guys on the roster even of a couple are projects. Even guys who look useless after a year or two can bust out - they can take time to develop (see Purdue, Kornet, Ezeli).

The assumption that Robbins would be available might explain why an extra post was not recruited. Clevon always seemed a day or two away from the next injury. Bad luck for the guy. Not sure what to think about Odusipe. He had 2 points in 9 minutes vs low NAIA level Point Park College.

[Doreknox]

[quote=Nashmann post_id=164947 time=1642091266 user_id=108

Dia is 6'7" ....so we are depending on 3 Freshman two who are actually PF's to cover the 5....hmmmm
[/quote]

We currently have no centers able to play, but we do have 2 PG, 3 Forwards and 8 SG/Wings. I'm no Red Auerbach (!), but that is piss poor roster construction. Even VBK was better at it.

[Jason94]

I watched the Ohio-Kent game on ESPN+ and didn't even notice that Odusipe played for 2 minutes. Didn't score. His numbers on the MAC level are about the same as they were at VU. Clevon's 8/6 per game (florida international) are around the same as here in 2019-2020. He was unfortunately very injury prone, so it was hard to know how effective for how much of a season you would see out of him. Obinna is playing much better with a big increase in playing time. He scored double figures vs both ranked teams St Joe's played.

I'm not saying any of those guys were world beaters - they clearly weren't, but they do represent depth that we currently don't have. Even just one of those guys would have made at least some difference. I think we learned from CKS' time that a lot of the non-top rated center prospects will not pan out, but when one hits it can be special. Injuries are common as well, but it is better to have a number of these guys on the roster even of a couple are projects. Even guys who look useless after a year or two can bust out - they can take time to develop (see Purdue, Kornet, Ezeli).

The assumption that Robbins would be available might explain why an extra post was not recruited. Clevon always seemed a day or two away from the next injury. Bad luck for the guy. Not sure what to think about Odusipe. He had 2 points in 9 minutes vs low NAIA level Point Park College.

Since he had already experienced a post that had injury issues and knowing that post players are more likely to have injury issues, wouldn't it make sense to have more than 2 true posts on the roster? And Obinna is averaging 13 ppg and 7.5 rpg while shooting over 60% from the field in about 26 mpg. Would something like that not have been valuable this season? A guy who was on the roster last year and transferred away. Hopefully CJS has learned the lesson that two true posts is not enough to go into the season with. Remember, this is not a comparison of those players to Robbins, it is a comparison of those players to Frank or Mann at Center.

[commadore]

Our post play next year will be even worse unless QMB and/or Robbins stick around another year. Dort alone won't cut it.

Certainly need QMB to stick but Robbins is done after this year, isn't he? We actually add decent size next year with Dort, Smith and Dia at 6'9",6'8", and 6'8" respectively. I actually feel like our issue next year will be having 1-2 of Ty Lawrence, Gabe Dorsey, Shane Dezonie to develop in to consistent scoring/shooting threats.

I heard the other night that Dorsey is lights out in practice from 3. We will need a consistent outside threat or two. Pippen will leave a monster hole.

By the way, we need Pip to bring the kind of performance that he had Tuesday night every night. If he can become a consistent threat from 3, it's a whole new level.

Over the last four months I have seen a dozen posts saying Robbins has one more (covid) year and another dozen saying he doesn't. Someone who knows for sure, please enlighten us!

[commadore]

[quote=Nashmann post_id=164947 time=1642091266 user_id=108

Dia is 6'7" ....so we are depending on 3 Freshman two who are actually PF's to cover the 5....hmmmm

We currently have no centers able to play, but we do have 2 PG, 3 Forwards and 8 SG/Wings. I'm no Red Auerbach (!), but that is piss poor roster construction. Even VBK was better at it.
[/quote]

We seemed to do ok in the '73-74 year with a 6'7" point guard playing center.

[Jason94]

Our post play next year will be even worse unless QMB and/or Robbins stick around another year. Dort alone won't cut it.

Certainly need QMB to stick but Robbins is done after this year, isn't he? We actually add decent size next year with Dort, Smith and Dia at 6'9",6'8", and 6'8" respectively. I actually feel like our issue next year will be having 1-2 of Ty Lawrence, Gabe Dorsey, Shane Dezonie to develop in to consistent scoring/shooting threats.

I heard the other night that Dorsey is lights out in practice from 3. We will need a consistent outside threat or two. Pippen will leave a monster hole.

By the way, we need Pip to bring the kind of performance that he had Tuesday night every night. If he can become a consistent threat from 3, it's a whole new level.

Over the last four months I have seen a dozen posts saying Robbins has one more (covid) year and another dozen saying he doesn't. Someone who knows for sure, please enlighten us!

The rules appear to state that last season didn't count from an eligibility standpoint.

https://www.dailycardinal.com/article/2 ... ligibility

Since last season would have been Robbin's 3rd season, he should have two additional seasons of eligibility in which he has 3 seasons to complete. That is why players like Maxwell Evans is playing this season despite having played in the previous four seasons. IMO, CJS needs to determine if he can keep Robbins on the roster two seasons, and if he can it might make sense to redshirt him and have him for two full seasons starting next season. It might make sense to try to develop as many players for next season as possible and not worry about the record, because even if Robbins does come back at this point, it will be for 8-10 games maximum and might add a win or two at most, getting us to 6 as opposed to 4 wins or something like that.

If we lose to UGA I'd start playing and developing for next season.

[commadore]

Certainly need QMB to stick but Robbins is done after this year, isn't he? We actually add decent size next year with Dort, Smith and Dia at 6'9",6'8", and 6'8" respectively. I actually feel like our issue next year will be having 1-2 of Ty Lawrence, Gabe Dorsey, Shane Dezonie to develop in to consistent scoring/shooting threats.

I heard the other night that Dorsey is lights out in practice from 3. We will need a consistent outside threat or two. Pippen will leave a monster hole.

By the way, we need Pip to bring the kind of performance that he had Tuesday night every night. If he can become a consistent threat from 3, it's a whole new level.

Over the last four months I have seen a dozen posts saying Robbins has one more (covid) year and another dozen saying he doesn't. Someone who knows for sure, please enlighten us!

The rules appear to state that last season didn't count from an eligibility standpoint.

https://www.dailycardinal.com/article/2 ... ligibility

Since last season would have been Robbin's 3rd season, he should have two additional seasons of eligibility in which he has 3 seasons to complete. That is why players like Maxwell Evans is playing this season despite having played in the previous four seasons. IMO, CJS needs to determine if he can keep Robbins on the roster two seasons, and if he can it might make sense to redshirt him and have him for two full seasons starting next season. It might make sense to try to develop as many players for next season as possible and not worry about the record, because even if Robbins does come back at this point, it will be for 8-10 games maximum and might add a win or two at most, getting us to 6 as opposed to 4 wins or something like that.

If we lose to UGA I'd start playing and developing for next season.

Thanks. That is what I thought, but folks just keep saying "he's done."