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That went well...

For non-Vanderbilt sports discussion including but not limited to politics, science, the arts, travel, technology, entertainment, food & drink and more.

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BILTMORE
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That went well...

Postby BILTMORE » Tue May 15, 2018 1:04 pm

Moving our embassy to Jerusalem sparked protests which led to over 60 dead and - did I read this right - 2400 wounded?!!!

Obama would've left it in Tel Aviv.



Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Tue May 15, 2018 3:33 pm

Obama, as well as W and Clinton promised to move the embassy and have a United Jerusalem.
Hamas has been demonstrating since March. Some estimates I have read have between 40 and 50 thousand demonstrating.
If you are attempting to hand this on Trump you are wrong.

BILTMORE
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Re: That went well...

Postby BILTMORE » Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm

Matheta wrote:Obama, as well as W and Clinton promised to move the embassy and have a United Jerusalem.
Hamas has been demonstrating since March. Some estimates I have read have between 40 and 50 thousand demonstrating.
If you are attempting to hand this on Trump you are wrong.



How silly of me to observe the obvious link between the violence that occurred the day after embassy unveiling - to the embassy unveiling.

Sorry - but if the Palestinian demonstrations have been happening since March, that only makes the timing of the unveiling even clumsier.

Saying that some day you'll move the embassy is smart politics. It makes Israel happy. Not moving it is also smart politics: it makes Palestinians happy.
Moving it is dumb politics - it makes everyone crazy and gets 2500 people injured or killed.

And let's face it - gets us absolutely nothing.

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cjdore
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Re: That went well...

Postby cjdore » Wed May 16, 2018 9:55 am

BILTMORE wrote:
Matheta wrote:Obama, as well as W and Clinton promised to move the embassy and have a United Jerusalem.
Hamas has been demonstrating since March. Some estimates I have read have between 40 and 50 thousand demonstrating.
If you are attempting to hand this on Trump you are wrong.



How silly of me to observe the obvious link between the violence that occurred the day after embassy unveiling - to the embassy unveiling.

Sorry - but if the Palestinian demonstrations have been happening since March, that only makes the timing of the unveiling even clumsier.

Saying that some day you'll move the embassy is smart politics. It makes Israel happy. Not moving it is also smart politics: it makes Palestinians happy.
Moving it is dumb politics - it makes everyone crazy and gets 2500 people injured or killed.

And let's face it - gets us absolutely nothing.

Bmore it was you on another post trying to claim that President Trump was not keeping his promises to voters and when he does you poo poo it. He cannot win in your world but always wins in mine.....a true tale of our split electorate!

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ChattaDore
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Re: That went well...

Postby ChattaDore » Wed May 16, 2018 10:49 am

Don’t riot or cross a border illegally and you won’t get shot. Probably a good principle to live by.


Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Wed May 16, 2018 5:41 pm

Hamas claimed that 50 of the more than 60 killed along the border between Gaza and Israel during an outbreak of violent protests following the U.S. Embassy’s opening in Jerusalem Monday were part of its terror organization Wednesday.

vebiltdervan
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Re: That went well...

Postby vebiltdervan » Wed May 16, 2018 5:52 pm

Matheta wrote:Hamas claimed that 50 of the more than 60 killed along the border between Gaza and Israel during an outbreak of violent protests following the U.S. Embassy’s opening in Jerusalem Monday were part of its terror organization Wednesday.

"Part of their terror organization"?? Something tells me that, no, Hamas did not claim it that way. Source please.

Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Wed May 16, 2018 5:56 pm

vebiltdervan wrote:
Matheta wrote:Hamas claimed that 50 of the more than 60 killed along the border between Gaza and Israel during an outbreak of violent protests following the U.S. Embassy’s opening in Jerusalem Monday were part of its terror organization Wednesday.

"Part of their terror organization"?? Something tells me that, no, Hamas did not claim it that way. Source please.


https://mobile.twitter.com/IDFSpokesper ... 22/video/1

vebiltdervan
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Re: That went well...

Postby vebiltdervan » Wed May 16, 2018 6:30 pm

I have a number of friends who are members of the IDF. But I promise you they would uniformly laugh at the idea that the IDF's media dept is going to represent any Hamas official's pronouncement in an objective manner. That's precisely what your IDF twitter asks us to believe.

Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Wed May 16, 2018 9:16 pm

vebiltdervan wrote:I have a number of friends who are members of the IDF. But I promise you they would uniformly laugh at the idea that the IDF's media dept is going to represent any Hamas official's pronouncement in an objective manner. That's precisely what your IDF twitter asks us to believe.


IDK
It seems it doesn't fit your desired narrative so you discount

Golddore68
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Re: That went well...

Postby Golddore68 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:16 pm

BILTMORE wrote:
Matheta wrote:Obama, as well as W and Clinton promised to move the embassy and have a United Jerusalem.
Hamas has been demonstrating since March. Some estimates I have read have between 40 and 50 thousand demonstrating.
If you are attempting to hand this on Trump you are wrong.



How silly of me to observe the obvious link between the violence that occurred the day after embassy unveiling - to the embassy unveiling.

Sorry - but if the Palestinian demonstrations have been happening since March, that only makes the timing of the unveiling even clumsier.

Saying that some day you'll move the embassy is smart politics. It makes Israel happy. Not moving it is also smart politics: it makes Palestinians happy.
Moving it is dumb politics - it makes everyone crazy and gets 2500 people injured or killed.

And let's face it - gets us absolutely nothing.


So you’re basically saying that meaningless empty promises are better than actually saying you’re going to do something and actually following through and doing it.

Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Thu May 17, 2018 8:16 am

vebiltdervan wrote:I have a number of friends who are members of the IDF. But I promise you they would uniformly laugh at the idea that the IDF's media dept is going to represent any Hamas official's pronouncement in an objective manner. That's precisely what your IDF twitter asks us to believe.


Senior IDF Spokesperson's Unit official: Hamas landed knockout PR blow
2 days after Gaza border protests exact highest Palestinian death toll since Protective Edge, senior IDF officer admits Israel's failure in allowing Hamas to set world narrative; officer, tasked with working with foreign press, adds 'Hamas wanted as many Palestinians killed as possible, photos of hospitals buckling under pressure.'

Saying that you have several IDF friends does not add any authority, it is equivalent to someone saying "I'm not racist, I have several black friends!"

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Re: That went well...

Postby vebiltdervan » Thu May 17, 2018 12:53 pm

Matheta wrote:IDK...it doesn't fit your desired narrative so you discount [it]

That's not the way it went down, though. The way it went down was that it DID fit your desired narrative, so you quoted it here, without revealing the source, thereby depriving the rest of us of relevant facts and the possibility of judging for ourselves the source's potential/probable bias.

Let's describe your source: 1) It's a roughly 5-second clip, showing a single answer to a single question, edited out of a presumably long interview. The mere fact of that selectivity alone renders it suspect. Why was that 5-seconds chosen?—is it at all representative of the larger interview? The reader has no means of judging. 2) The interview is conducted in Arabic, with an English subtitle presumably provided by the IDF editors. Non-Arabic-speaking viewers are 100% dependent on this IDF translation; that is a further source of potential suspicion. Is it accurate?—is it representative? These are objective critiques of the minimal-ness of this source.

I don't trust it, on the bases given above. MA evidently trusts it 100%. Yet he accuses me of sloppiness related to "desired narratives"? Give me a frickin break.

vebiltdervan
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Re: That went well...

Postby vebiltdervan » Thu May 17, 2018 12:56 pm

Matheta wrote:...Saying that you have several IDF friends does not add any authority, it is equivalent to someone saying "I'm not racist, I have several black friends!"

Or, "I'm not racist, I used to go on freedom bus rides". Two can play that game, you know.

3rdFloorDyer
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Re: That went well...

Postby 3rdFloorDyer » Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm

Don't think he was playing a game, just making an appropriate observation.

vebiltdervan
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Re: That went well...

Postby vebiltdervan » Thu May 17, 2018 3:41 pm

3rdFloorDyer wrote:Don't think he was playing a game, just making an appropriate observation.

I'm sure he appreciates your protective cover, but I've been on the receiving end of too many of these insults-cum-'plausible deniability', over too many years. At some point, it's manifestly an intentional game.

Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Thu May 17, 2018 4:45 pm

vebiltdervan wrote:
3rdFloorDyer wrote:Don't think he was playing a game, just making an appropriate observation.

I'm sure he appreciates your protective cover, but I've been on the receiving end of too many of these insults-cum-'plausible deniability', over too many years. At some point, it's manifestly an intentional game.


Excuse me here, did you not take me to task last week over something similar?
IIRC you took humbrage in reference to believing HRC had been elected?
It seems a frequent pattern between the two of us, to nit pick something minor

Matheta
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Re: That went well...

Postby Matheta » Thu May 17, 2018 5:37 pm

vebiltdervan wrote:
3rdFloorDyer wrote:Don't think he was playing a game, just making an appropriate observation.

I'm sure he appreciates your protective cover, but I've been on the receiving end of too many of these insults-cum-'plausible deniability', over too many years. At some point, it's manifestly an intentional game.

vebiltdervan
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Re: That went well...

Postby vebiltdervan » Thu May 17, 2018 6:19 pm

vebiltdervan wrote:...I'm sure [MA] appreciates [the] protective cover, but I've been on the receiving end of too many of these insults-cum-'plausible deniability', over too many years. At some point, it's manifestly an intentional game.

Matheta wrote:Excuse me here, did you not take me to task last week over something similar?...IIRC you took humbrage[sic] in reference to believing HRC had been elected?...

As you have conveniently forgotten, I will remind you precisely how that previous incident was "resolved":
Re: Pay for play
vebiltdervan: "Don't presume to tell me what I "believe"...it should behoove you to practice what you preach.

Matheta: "It's not a presumption. The suit still fits even if you don't like the color."

vebiltdervan: "Fine. DO NOT COMPLAIN then when I presume to tell you precisely what you think & believe."


So, no: you are not "excused". You chose to reject my "umbrage", effectively insisting that you comprehend my inner motivations better than I know them myself.

So DO NOT COMPLAIN now: you made your choice. I know your true inner motivations; there: I have accorded you the same degree of respect you chose to accord me.

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VEBILTDERVANI refuse to engage you anymore

Postby Matheta » Thu May 17, 2018 8:31 pm

Your nit picking simply for the exercise of nit picking is tiring and adds nothing other than for you to grind your ax.
Done



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