Tough Loss

[charlestonalum]

We loss game more than they won it. Second half turnovers, uninspired rebounding and terrible free throw shooting front end 1 and 1's second half. That, sports fans, was story in second half very winnable game. Too bad. Rooting for these guys but...

[mathguy]

If we're gonna lose anyway, I really wan to see more of the freshmen!

[EagleDore]

I've watched multiple times this season including last night. Thinking of offense only, I don't think our offensive scheme matches our player's abilities well. I don't think our team will be quicker than most in the SEC (we weren't quicker than NCSU), and a player creating his own shots is harder. Thus, the type of motion we use doesn't appear to regularly set up our shooters well. Except for Stute, our shooters are streaky. Screens are frequently weak. Our center is frequently not in a position to rebound off an outside shot. Manjon looks like he can penetrate but we don't get enough out of it. We have poor shooting "touch" in close. We see occasional flashes of brilliance but nothing consistent. Last night was winnable. I think our guys work hard. They don't quit. Coach has got to set them up for success better. I'm the first to admit, I'm not a coach or an expert - just my observations.

[Nashmann]

The team played much better in the first half. They seemed to hustle more. Then, they fell apart pretty much blowing an 8-point lead and letting NCS go on a 13-0 run.

[memphisVUalum]

If we're gonna lose anyway, I really wan to see more of the freshmen!

And then someone would've been complaining that they "don't understand what Stackhouse is doing with the line up". There is always a complaint for every action that he makes.

[Jason94]

If we're gonna lose anyway, I really wan to see more of the freshmen!

And then someone would've been complaining that they "don't understand what Stackhouse is doing with the line up". There is always a complaint for every action that he makes.

So? Why should CJS concern himself with what some random fan complains about? This also conflates all complaints as equal and therefore what he is doing is the exact course of action that he should take, which strikes me as a rather shallow way of looking at things.

I've laid out pretty clearly that how he plays his lineups should be how we judge his results. He has chosen to play an experienced lineup, implying that he is trying to win with players who have been there before and are "ready" (which is pretty much what he has said). Therefore his not winning is going to be rightfully seen as an issue. If he were taking his lumps by playing freshmen who were making freshmen mistakes, more leeway in the results would be warranted.

[memphisVUalum]

If we're gonna lose anyway, I really wan to see more of the freshmen!

And then someone would've been complaining that they "don't understand what Stackhouse is doing with the line up". There is always a complaint for every action that he makes.

So? Why should CJS concern himself with what some random fan complains about? This also conflates all complaints as equal and therefore what he is doing is the exact course of action that he should take, which strikes me as a rather shallow way of looking at things.

I've laid out pretty clearly that how he plays his lineups should be how we judge his results. He has chosen to play an experienced lineup, implying that he is trying to win with players who have been there before and are "ready" (which is pretty much what he has said). Therefore his not winning is going to be rightfully seen as an issue. If he were taking his lumps by playing freshmen who were making freshmen mistakes, more leeway in the results would be warranted.

My offhanded remark to someone else wasn't addressed to you or about you respond about how you mention you laid things out.

I was merely referencing a sentence I had seen in here before where somebody said during a game "what's he doing with his lineup" or something to that effect and I just was repeating that in reply because I felt that that is exactly what would be said if the coach were to do what was suggested in each post.

Every offhanded remark is not meant to be a deep thought since you're also now complaining about posting "shallowness" by contrast with your mystic philosophical depth of thought in a sports chatter forum as though discussing Socrates or Kant.

I applaud the formidable depth of thought from those who toil to break down every possible coaching or player mistake with schoolmarm fastidiousness that they can detect after each game.

In a game discussion forum, when a team loses a game by two points with their best starter out, some foolish shallow thinker, who arrived to merely support their favorite team with fellow fans, might accidentally think the world did not end.

But fortunately for us, we have your deep thoughts to show how every mistake you perceive is a crisis.

Maybe one of us should sometime send out smoke signals to Stackhouse asking why he makes the choices he makes before presuming every thought that goes through our minds is superior to what he is doing.

It might be he has a reason for the moves you attack about why he plays somebody more than somebody you think he should play more. For instance, he might have planned already to play some player more later in the season and have a reason for when he plays who. But obviously this is a shallow consideration.

I'm not here for the same "deep" reasons. I just like to occasionally be around people who support the same team.

To me, most of the effort spent building a case to get a coach fired every other game is an unproductive waste of energy. Every thread after a loss seems like an "if I were coach" thread. In the decades I grew up watching sports, my family never talked about what somebody should have done differently. We just watched in the moment. It's a different way to relate to the game before the internet existed; my family included athletes and we never missed a game of our favorite teams on tv.

I guess a forum wouldn't have anything to talk about after a game is over if we didn't conduct postmortems daily so it's not something to find surprising or criticize, just a difference in how I began watching sports as a youth and how I watch even today.

[geeznotagain]

I guess a forum wouldn't have anything to talk about after a game is over if we didn't conduct postmortems daily so it's not something to find surprising or criticize, just a difference in how I began watching sports as a youth and how I watch even today.

I have no problem with a significant part of a fan forum consisting of armchair quarterbacking, questioning a coach's decisions, criticizing the refs, griping about opposing fans, pointing out a perceived lack of effort by a particular player, etc. So yeah, criticism in my view is a big part of any forum. Obviously a poster who NEVER says anything positive is another story, but I disagree, respectfully, with your view here.

[MrMemorial]

And then someone would've been complaining that they "don't understand what Stackhouse is doing with the line up". There is always a complaint for every action that he makes.

So? Why should CJS concern himself with what some random fan complains about? This also conflates all complaints as equal and therefore what he is doing is the exact course of action that he should take, which strikes me as a rather shallow way of looking at things.

I've laid out pretty clearly that how he plays his lineups should be how we judge his results. He has chosen to play an experienced lineup, implying that he is trying to win with players who have been there before and are "ready" (which is pretty much what he has said). Therefore his not winning is going to be rightfully seen as an issue. If he were taking his lumps by playing freshmen who were making freshmen mistakes, more leeway in the results would be warranted.

My offhanded remark to someone else wasn't addressed to you or about you respond about how you mention you laid things out.

I was merely referencing a sentence I had seen in here before where somebody said during a game "what's he doing with his lineup" or something to that effect and I just was repeating that in reply because I felt that that is exactly what would be said if the coach were to do what was suggested in each post.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every offhanded remark is not meant to be a deep thought since you're also now complaining about posting "shallowness" by contrast with your mystic philosophical depth of thought in a sports chatter forum as though discussing Socrates or Kant.

I applaud the formidable depth of thought from those who toil to break down every possible coaching or player mistake with schoolmarm fastidiousness that they can detect after each game.

In a game discussion forum, when a team loses a game by two points with their best starter out, some foolish shallow thinker, who arrived to merely support their favorite team with fellow fans, might accidentally think the world did not end.

But fortunately for us, we have your deep thoughts to show how every mistake you perceive is a crisis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe one of us should sometime send out smoke signals to Stackhouse asking why he makes the choices he makes before presuming every thought that goes through our minds is superior to what he is doing.

It might be he has a reason for the moves you attack about why he plays somebody more than somebody you think he should play more. For instance, he might have planned already to play some player more later in the season and have a reason for when he plays who. But obviously this is a shallow consideration.

I'm not here for the same "deep" reasons. I just like to occasionally be around people who support the same team.

To me, most of the effort spent building a case to get a coach fired every other game is an unproductive waste of energy. Every thread after a loss seems like an "if I were coach" thread. In the decades I grew up watching sports, my family never talked about what somebody should have done differently. We just watched in the moment. It's a different way to relate to the game before the internet existed; my family included athletes and we never missed a game of our favorite teams on tv.

I guess a forum wouldn't have anything to talk about after a game is over if we didn't conduct postmortems daily so it's not something to find surprising or criticize, just a difference in how I began watching sports as a youth and how I watch even today.

How many upvotes are allowed? That is my nominee for post of the year. Maybe the all-time best.

[Jason94]

To me, most of the effort spent building a case to get a coach fired every other game is an unproductive waste of energy. Every thread after a loss seems like an "if I were coach" thread. In the decades I grew up watching sports, my family never talked about what somebody should have done differently. We just watched in the moment. It's a different way to relate to the game before the internet existed; my family included athletes and we never missed a game of our favorite teams on tv.

Why are you on this forum then? It is clearly titled "Vandymania", which implies heavy fandom. Since you don't like complaints or deep dives (and hadn't bothered to watch enough games that you didn't have any idea who the starting point guard is) what is your presence here for except to complain about the complaining? And for your complaints about my deep dives you write a soliloquys complaining about my style of posting. Why not just go on youtube and watch the highlights and be blissfully unaware of any problems others might have with the program?

Your presence here makes no sense to me - you don't appear to care much about the team and don't like people complaining/analyzing the team but have do critique the complaints. Would you rather we all just post "tough loss - but i'm sure the players tried their best and the coaches are doing everything they possibly can - better luck next game!" You are also of course free to not read what I post or disagree with what I said, but you have done neither. And BTW, I'm don't want the coach to get fired - that would set the program back another couple of seasons and we've been set back enough. But I'm also observant to understand that what he is doing right now isn't going to work this season. Just because your interests diverge from others doesn't make yours correct and if you criticize those interests don't be surprised by pushback.

[Jason94]

So? Why should CJS concern himself with what some random fan complains about? This also conflates all complaints as equal and therefore what he is doing is the exact course of action that he should take, which strikes me as a rather shallow way of looking at things.

I've laid out pretty clearly that how he plays his lineups should be how we judge his results. He has chosen to play an experienced lineup, implying that he is trying to win with players who have been there before and are "ready" (which is pretty much what he has said). Therefore his not winning is going to be rightfully seen as an issue. If he were taking his lumps by playing freshmen who were making freshmen mistakes, more leeway in the results would be warranted.

My offhanded remark to someone else wasn't addressed to you or about you respond about how you mention you laid things out.

I was merely referencing a sentence I had seen in here before where somebody said during a game "what's he doing with his lineup" or something to that effect and I just was repeating that in reply because I felt that that is exactly what would be said if the coach were to do what was suggested in each post.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every offhanded remark is not meant to be a deep thought since you're also now complaining about posting "shallowness" by contrast with your mystic philosophical depth of thought in a sports chatter forum as though discussing Socrates or Kant.

I applaud the formidable depth of thought from those who toil to break down every possible coaching or player mistake with schoolmarm fastidiousness that they can detect after each game.

In a game discussion forum, when a team loses a game by two points with their best starter out, some foolish shallow thinker, who arrived to merely support their favorite team with fellow fans, might accidentally think the world did not end.

But fortunately for us, we have your deep thoughts to show how every mistake you perceive is a crisis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe one of us should sometime send out smoke signals to Stackhouse asking why he makes the choices he makes before presuming every thought that goes through our minds is superior to what he is doing.

It might be he has a reason for the moves you attack about why he plays somebody more than somebody you think he should play more. For instance, he might have planned already to play some player more later in the season and have a reason for when he plays who. But obviously this is a shallow consideration.

I'm not here for the same "deep" reasons. I just like to occasionally be around people who support the same team.

To me, most of the effort spent building a case to get a coach fired every other game is an unproductive waste of energy. Every thread after a loss seems like an "if I were coach" thread. In the decades I grew up watching sports, my family never talked about what somebody should have done differently. We just watched in the moment. It's a different way to relate to the game before the internet existed; my family included athletes and we never missed a game of our favorite teams on tv.

I guess a forum wouldn't have anything to talk about after a game is over if we didn't conduct postmortems daily so it's not something to find surprising or criticize, just a difference in how I began watching sports as a youth and how I watch even today.

How many upvotes are allowed? That is my nominee for post of the year. Maybe the all-time best.

So do you still think all 5 of our freshmen are going to make the NBA (so much so that you questioned the fandom of those who disagreed)? Or do you think the coach should actually play the next Kyle Anderson/Obi Toppin instead of letting him ride the bench? Strange after so much commentary about how great this freshmen class was that you have zero thoughts on how little they've played this season.

The greatest irony is that you were the main critic of past coaches and still hold grudges 10+ seasons later ("remember the horror of Marist - it was like another Pearl Harbor!"), and MemphisVU's hates referrals to the previous coach, which is half of your schtick. Talk about a complete lack of self-awareness.

[MrMemorial]

^ ^ From the guy who knows so little about basketball talent, that he proclaimed Tshiebwe to be a lottery pick in the last NBA draft and then Tshiebwe withdrew from said draft when he was projected to go late 2nd round to totally undrafted.

Everybody on here knows who the nickname "Mrs. Pomeroy" is referring to and that in and of itself is quite amusing. It will stick, just like "BethAnne Rhozhaski" as a code name for transfers.

[Jason94]

^ ^ From the guy who knows so little about basketball talent, that he proclaimed Tshiebwe to be a lottery pick in the last NBA draft and then Tshiebwe withdrew from said draft when he was projected to go late 2nd round to totally undrafted.

Everybody on here knows who the nickname "Mrs. Pomeroy" is referring to and that in and of itself is quite amusing. It will stick, just like "BethAnne Rhozhaski" as a code name for transfers.

Again, how if Dia is just like Justin Anderson or Obi Toppin, why isn't he playing? Just trying to learn from a basketball talent expert like yourself.

And that nickname reveals your ignorance of stats in general - Pomeroy isn't giving us his opinion on teams/players, he is providing stats in an easy format to digest. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. Interesting that you pulled out a 15 year old worn out joke from the forum given that you just joined a year ago and have no idea who Bhoyal is. I know it is tough keeping track when you've been booted off the forum so many times and have to keep changing user names. Maybe if you would actually learn your lesson it wouldn't keep happening over and over again.

[alathIN]

This is a fan base that just a few years ago was delighted to get rid of a coach because a succession of early round NCAA tournament losses was intolerable.
Jason94 and I were both accused of being crappy fans, "settling for mediocrity" for pointing out that CKS had been more successful than the average college basketball coach, and there was a greater than 50% chance the next coach would do worse. Because obviously no real fan could ever tolerate the lack of deep NCAA runs.

Now here we are with a losing record in the pre-conference season, with three bad losses to teams outside the top 100, hoping we can get wins over Alabama A&M and SELA to avoid going into SEC play below .500
You say this is a rebuilding year? After all, we lost an all time great VU player to the NBA after last year's peak success, marked by going three rounds deep into the NIT. Certainly we can't expect to stay at that crowning level of glory forever - a let down and rebuilding year was certainly in store.
So, for our rebuilding process, we have our highly touted recruits, the landing of whom is considered one of our coach's great accomplishments, sitting on the bench watching career journeymen role players get all the back court minutes. So apparently this is what we're building for next season: to see the same team minus Robbins. Because Shelby, Dia, Dory, and Lewis aren't gaining a lot of experience sitting on the bench.

Under these circumstances it would be a very unusual to visit a fan board and not find at least a wee bit of discontentment being expressed.

[Go Vandy!]

I know i'm in a small minority, but i would prefer more than 2 Sweet 16s and 1 SECTC in 17 seasons.

[Doreknox]

I know i'm in a small minority, but i would prefer more than 2 Sweet 16s and 1 SECTC in 17 seasons.

I get that. But focusing on the present, how do you feel about zero sweet sixteens, no NCAAs and not even coming close to a SECTC in four years?

[MrMemorial]

I know i'm in a small minority, but i would prefer more than 2 Sweet 16s and 1 SECTC in 17 seasons.

I get that. But focusing on the present, how do you feel about zero sweet sixteens, no NCAAs and not even coming close to a SECTC in four years?

Not good.

How did you like...
First Vanderbilt Basketball Coach With a 20 Loss Season
Worst losing streak in program history
Worst SEC record in school history
Worst league record in 70 years
Back to back 20 loss seasons

I'm pretty sure that was the season FIVE years ago.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I have ESPN+ on, watching Stony Brook (4-8) at WVU (9-2). Huggy's team is currently struggling to put the "SeaWolves" away.

One of only six coaches ever with 900 or more career victories, Huggins has been to 24 total NCAA tournaments, including 23 in the last 26 seasons. He has led his teams to nine Sweet Sixteen appearances, four Elite Eight appearances, and two Final Four appearances (1992 with Cincinnati and 2010 with West Virginia). As of March 2021, Huggins has averaged 23 wins per season over the course of his career. He is also the second coach to win 300+ games at two schools.

Just an observation.

(It was 28-24 at the half... WVU is starting to pull away late in the game)

[fldore]

Not good.

How did you like...
First Vanderbilt Basketball Coach With a 20 Loss Season
Worst losing streak in program history
Worst SEC record in school history
Worst league record in 70 years
Back to back 20 loss seasons

I'm pretty sure that was the season FIVE years ago.

You know we have a problem when the best argument for our current coach is that he isn't the last coach. I mentioned this in another thread but that excuse just doesn't fly. With all the transfer rules set the way they are, 4 years on the job may as well be what 4 decades used to be. You can turn over an entire roster in an offseason. High school recruits have no idea who are last coach was and probably don't even know what our record was two years ago. This program just isn't in a very good place right now and that has to entirely fall on the head coach.

[alathIN]

I know i'm in a small minority, but i would prefer more than 2 Sweet 16s and 1 SECTC in 17 seasons.

If you find that record dissatisfying, you must be even more dissatisfied now.
It would be great to do better than CKS. First, though, we will have to stop doing worse.

[Doreknox]

How did you like...
First Vanderbilt Basketball Coach With a 20 Loss Season
Worst losing streak in program history
Worst SEC record in school history
Worst league record in 70 years
Back to back 20 loss seasons

I thought that coach should be fired, too.