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OT: Swanson and Bregman

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LawoftheWest
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OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby LawoftheWest » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:47 pm

I remember there were arguments about who was the better player, Bregman or Swanson. I loved Swanson and his attitude, but he hasn't yet made a big splash in the bigs. On the other hand, Bregman is doing just fine for himself.
Swanson has had some hitting problems. Could someone please remind me. Was it that he could not hit major league curve balls?
Thanks.



geeznotagain
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby geeznotagain » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:04 pm

I'd like to have both Bregman and Swanson on my team.

I believe early in the year Swanson was having trouble hitting a slider -- he "bit" on too many balls out of the strike zone and in the dirt. I don't think that's particularly unusual for a player who is relatively new to the majors. He improved when he got recalled, but that's still an area where he needs to improve even more if he's to reach his full potential.

Commodoredave
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby Commodoredave » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:38 am

Way too early to tell who is the better long term prospect. Swanson had a better 2016, and yes, he struggled early this season.
Bregman is a really good hitter, but let's not act like he is carrying the Astros. Every time he bats there are guys on base with Springer, Altuve, and Correa in front of him. He hit 284 this year, and is below that in the world series. Last night he had a couple of chances to drive in runs and failed.

Swanson's K rate was an issue in college. Part of the consideration in projecting potential was that he was not a full time player in high school, being a 2 sport star, and he only had two years of college ball because he was hurt as a freshman. Bregman was going to the majors from the time he was 10 years old, so he's had many more high level reps all the way through. You see the polish and the results of a great work ethic, but the upside is God given, and it may take a couple more years before we see how good Dansby will be.

VUaskew
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby VUaskew » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:17 am

Not to mention that the Braves didn't do Dansby any favors by trying to make him the face of the franchise so soon, in order to get the fans excited about a new stadium.

Ndorefin
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby Ndorefin » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:08 pm

Commodoredave wrote:
......Swanson's K rate was an issue in college. Part of the consideration in projecting potential was that he was not a full time player in high school, being a 2 sport star, and he only had two years of college ball because he was hurt as a freshman.


High school baseball (like basketball) is irrelevant. I’m sure he played a lot of summer baseball as Atlanta has some of the very best summer teams in the nation. Kendall has the same problem (striking out), so it doesn’t appear we have had good hitting coaches at VU. I also believe that is why Kendall wasn’t a top 10 draft pick.





BWestbrook
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby BWestbrook » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:04 pm

Pitching wins National Championships.

HopsLikeHolwerda
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby HopsLikeHolwerda » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:29 pm

Ndorefin wrote:
High school baseball (like basketball) is irrelevant. I’m sure he played a lot of summer baseball as Atlanta has some of the very best summer teams in the nation. Kendall has the same problem (striking out), so it doesn’t appear we have had good hitting coaches at VU. I also believe that is why Kendall wasn’t a top 10 draft pick.


Sorry to bump this after a few weeks, but I don't check the baseball forum much in the off-season. That being said, the statement above should be addressed. Swanson wasn't playing elite travel baseball in high school. He was balancing his time with a heavy AAU basketball schedule. He had such little exposure that he only had two collegiate offers to play baseball: Vandy and Troy ... and Troy only knew about him because both of his parents were athletes at Troy. On top of that, Vandy's other recruits got more scholarship money, and Swanson had to take out some student loans his Freshman year. As far as striking out, you have to understand that the game today is completely different than 5-10 years ago. The days of "choke and poke" with 2 strikes are over. Sabermetrics rule the day, and they say swing away. It doesn't matter if a guy strikes out 200 times a year anymore as long as he hits 20+ HRs. Swanson isn't striking out nearly as much as those guys. The game has changed. My kid is 8, in coach-pitch, and his elite travel ball coach is teaching them to swing for the fence every swing. And if they strike out, it doesn't matter. I haven't seen more than one kid on any other team in any of my son's tourneys strike out during coach pitch. We probably average 2 or 3 per game...and we've won 2 straight state championships and scored more runs than any other teams in our sanction. The game now is completely different, and Vandy's hitting coaches are instructing with that in mind. Kendall's issue is pitch recognition. Scouts have no problem with kids that strikeout a lot because they have big swings, if they can recognize pitches.

If two kids are really close in evaluation, you always go with the kid who's had fewer reps because he's the most naturally gifted.

Ndorefin
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby Ndorefin » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:08 pm

Unless you are a relative or a very close personal friend of Swanson’s, your statement that he only had two offers due to his limited exposure is simply not true. His family made it be known, quite publicly, that he was going to Vanderbilt (unless he was a high draft choice) and they rebuffed all requests from other colleges to even talk to him. They mention Troy out of respect to their alma mater. I have no reason to doubt the remainder of your response (in regard to how the game has changed).

LawoftheWest
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby LawoftheWest » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:34 pm

[quote="HopsLikeHolwerda"][quote="Ndorefin"]


As far as striking out, you have to understand that the game today is completely different than 5-10 years ago. The days of "choke and poke" with 2 strikes are over. Sabermetrics rule the day, and they say swing away. It doesn't matter if a guy strikes out 200 times a year anymore as long as he hits 20+ HRs. Swanson isn't striking out nearly as much as those guys. The game has changed. My kid is 8, in coach-pitch, and his elite travel ball coach is teaching them to swing for the fence every swing.


Interesting comment. I am not sufficiently knowledgeable as to agree or disagree. However, this past season's American League MVP was José Altuve. He did have some pop in his bat, but I believe he won it on his batting average, steals, defense, hustle and leadership.

HopsLikeHolwerda
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby HopsLikeHolwerda » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:04 pm

Ndorefin wrote:Unless you are a relative or a very close personal friend of Swanson’s, your statement that he only had two offers due to his limited exposure is simply not true. His family made it be known, quite publicly, that he was going to Vanderbilt (unless he was a high draft choice) and they rebuffed all requests from other colleges to even talk to him. They mention Troy out of respect to their alma mater. I have no reason to doubt the remainder of your response (in regard to how the game has changed).


It is completely true. Perhaps you should pay attention when Dansby gives interviews. He's mentioned lack of offers, and having to take out student loans multiple times. Feel free to YouTube search an interview with him and Fulmer in particular (once both were in the minors) where he talks in detail about his lack of recruitment. Bottom line, it's true, move on.

HopsLikeHolwerda
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Re: OT: Swanson and Bregman

Postby HopsLikeHolwerda » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:18 pm

LawoftheWest wrote:

Interesting comment. I am not sufficiently knowledgeable as to agree or disagree. However, this past season's American League MVP was José Altuve. He did have some pop in his bat, but I believe he won it on his batting average, steals, defense, hustle and leadership.
[/quote][/quote]

Altuve is a perfect example of the new game. He completely reworked his swing to hit for more power. Increased from single digits HRs to 15, 24 and 24 over the past 3 seasons. Slugging percentage is also up to .531 and .547 in the last two seasons, respectively. Impressive for a guy who hadn't cracked .460 before the last two years. His K-rate is up slightly now, but so is his batting average. As for his change, he moved further off the plate and he also now opens his hips earlier in his swing to increase whip-action of the bat in the zone. He also moved to a high leg kick to generate energy. In short, he has figured out how to use as much of his body as he possibly can in order to hit more HRs. Also, after stealing 56 bases in 2014, he's declined to 30 and 32 in the previous two years. Even Altuve, though only 27 is running less and selling out more to hit for power...and he's a tiny guy...but that approach got him an MVP award.






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