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OT - Vandy Bowling

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby dcdore » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:32 pm

@GAD @GAD
Always hopeful; rarely optimistic. @GAD

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby ANCHORDOWN01 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:36 pm

VU# @GAD @GAD @GAD

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Titans309fan
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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Titans309fan » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:27 pm

Awesome!! Great job, ladies! Go Dores!

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Johnmn555 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:05 am

Sorry to rain on the parade, but the existence of women's bowling scholarships is a product of an indefensible interpretation of Title IX which requires all sorts of scholarships to balance out 85 football scholarships. Absent bowling scholarships, you would have more academic scholarships, at least half of which would be going to women. With all of the great students who need financial aid, I'm sorry to see it being channeled to bowlers. Universities would be better off with a limit of 40 football scholarships. Football would still produce big revenue at Power 5 conference football schools, there would be more revenue for academic scholarships, and, sorry to say, there would be no women's bowling scholarships. Ok, go ahead and be outraged at my impertinence.





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Titans309fan
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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Titans309fan » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:42 am

Vandy can have as many academic scholarships as they want. Athletic scholarships have no effect on that number. So your claim is false.

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby PeteFox » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:04 am

Congratulations to the women bowlers. National championships are hard to come by in any sport, just ask around to the schools who have none (like VU, until 2007).

Way to go.

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby AuricGoldfinger » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:35 am

PeteFox wrote:Congratulations to the women bowlers. National championships are hard to come by in any sport, just ask around to the schools who have none (like VU, until 2007).


Fun trivia--there are only four Power Five conference schools that have never won an official NCAA national championship in any sport: Pitt, Virginia Tech, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State.

(Technically, football national championships, mythical or otherwise, aren't NCAA championships since the organization doesn't sponsor a championship at the FBS level.)
Vanderbilt, here's your blueprint for success in today's fan marketplace: https://www.anchorofgold.com/2018/2/12/ ... y-s-sports

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Versus75
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Re: Bowling scholarships

Postby Versus75 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:36 am

Johnmn555 wrote:Absent bowling scholarships, you would have more academic scholarships, at least half of which would be going to women.


These are not dumb jocks, Johnmn. While Vanderbilt may have some leeway in accepting scholarship athletes, the students must still meet requirements. And some exceed.

Take Kristin Quah for example: 3.95 gpa majoring in Biomedical Engineering/Electrical Engineering according to the announcers.

There are many NCAA Championship sports that seem "minor" to some, but are important to the specific universities and their athletes. Each university must choose. You should find a Pepperdine forum and put down its No. 1 ranked Beach Volleyball team or go to Rupp Rafters and tell the Blue Misters how many academic scholarships were taken up by the UK (mixed) Rifle Team that won its second NCAA championship last month.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/rifle/article ... onal-title

While I would like to see Vanderbilt compete in Volleyball and Softball, the dollars certainly are a factor. And I'm proud of any championship the 'Dores bring home.

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Johnmn555 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:02 pm

The bowlers are not poor students, but they are getting a free education that others pay $70K a year for. The money that is used for bowling scholarships could be used for financial aid for students who are not getting preference in admissions for being bowlers.

I found remarkable the comment that my premise is false because giving bowling scholarships does not put a limit on academic scholarships. Please, money is fungible. It's a zero sum game. If you spend it on one thing, you are not spending it on another! Bowling creates zero revenue. If you have bowling scholarships, additional money does not somehow magically appear for other scholarships.

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Titans309fan » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:00 pm

Johnmn555 wrote:The bowlers are not poor students, but they are getting a free education that others pay $70K a year for. The money that is used for bowling scholarships could be used for financial aid for students who are not getting preference in admissions for being bowlers.

I found remarkable the comment that my premise is false because giving bowling scholarships does not put a limit on academic scholarships. Please, money is fungible. It's a zero sum game. If you spend it on one thing, you are not spending it on another! Bowling creates zero revenue. If you have bowling scholarships, additional money does not somehow magically appear for other scholarships.


A school can offer 5 equivalent scholarships for Division I bowling, so you typically see 10 ladies get a half scholarship each.

The money for athletic scholarships come from a much different source than the money for academic scholarships. All that SEC Network money plus all the other TV rights helps fund athletic scholarships, plus Commodore Club contributions and ticket sales. Those scholarships are also limited in number by NCAA regulations.

Academic scholarships on the other hand come from trusts, endowments, contributions, and the like. There are no limits at all, besides how much money Vandy can raise. So saying that this bowling team is taking away money from other students is just wrong.

Johnmn555
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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Johnmn555 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:59 am

Nothing says that all of the money that comes from the SEC must be used on athletic scholarships. The only thing that is in effect compelling that is Title IX. Absent the ersatz Title IX interpretation (it's certainly not in the statute) Vandy could take any of the SEC money that might be left over after football and put it into anything, including general financial aid.

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby charlestonalum » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:43 am

Johnnnn, enjoy the sunshine, no rain today. VU has found a way to comply with NCAA and be national champions in a NCAA sport. Proud of coach and team. Bowling is saving VU money while allowing athletic excellence. No rain!

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby vebiltdervan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:02 am

vandy67 wrote:National Champs! Conquer and Prevail!

I had the pleasure of catching the championship match versus McKendree U on one of the ESPN channels yesterday. The VU women were clutch: trailing 3 games to 2 in the best-of-seven match, they had to win the last two games, & did.

McKendree was the defending nat'l champs, & they were playing virtually at home, as the matches were played in St. Louis, & McKendree is in nearby Lebanon IL.

Richly deserved congratulations!—& isn't that the first time we've won a second nat'l championship in any NCAA sport?

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby vujoe » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:23 pm

Congratulations to the bowling ladies. I, for one, am glad that these ladies have to partial scholarships for this activity. These gals come from all over the world and enhance the experience of all students at Vandy. So I think it is great!

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby Johnmn555 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:35 pm

vujoe wrote:These gals come from all over the world and enhance the experience of all students at Vandy.


Okay, you win. Perhaps I wouldn't be so boorish if I had enjoyed the bonhomie and fellowship of some bowlers as an undergraduate.

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Re: OT - Vandy Bowling

Postby ANCHORDOWN01 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:08 pm

This may clear up the misconception that Johnmmn is suggesting

So, Do Women’s Sports Really Make Money?
So, when a school is thinking about adding a women’s sport, the correct economic question is not a simple “how much will we spend?” Instead, the (economic) question should be “comparing this to the world where we don’t add the team, which has a better net revenue position?” Both scenarios might make money or might lose money, but looking at just one in isolation can’t tell you which is better. One bedrock principle of the field of Economics is that unless you look at the tradeoff between the choices, you cannot say whether the first choice is (economically) profitable or not.

So, back to our extremely hypothetical case of a school thinking about adding a women’s sport. Let’s put some numbers on the decision. Let’s assume that if you leave out the cost of the scholarships themselves, a school would need to add $112,599 in expenses to run this sport for a year. These expenses are as follows:

This data come from the 2013-14 University of Alabama-Birmingham and represent the women’s Bowling team. So this is a realistic set of expenses (again, absent scholarship costs) for a small women’s sports team. And yes, the school is kind of in the news lately because it did cut this team along with football and rifle.

Now let’s look at those scholarships. Let’s assume (consistent again with the UAB reported financials) that this hypothetical team provides athletic scholarships to 8 women, with a total retail value of $97,348 and the school further determines that across these eight women, the net discount is 31% (that is, the school gave out something like 2.47 scholarships shared across eight women). Recognize that after the $97,348 is deducted, the University will still take in the remaining 69%, which across the eight women comes to $217,949. That is, the full price for these eight women is $315,297 and the school has offered athletic scholarships such that the price is reduced by the $97,348 in scholarships such that the net in-flow of revenue is $217,949.

So, is that 31% discount good or bad for our hypothetical school? Trick question: the answer is “it depends” and as always, what it depends on is the forgone opportunity costs.

Question 1: Will the women on this hypothetical team go elsewhere if not offered a scholarship and/or if the team doesn’t exist?

If these eight women are coming regardless, then there the forgone revenue of offering these discounts is exactly equal to the discount itself and the economic cost happens to match the listed cost—the scholarships are lowering revenue by $97,348 compared to a world without the team. This is one of those happy accidents where the accounting the economics happen to match up. So Celebrate.

But unfortunately, it’s also pretty unlikely that eight out of state, high-level bowlers would have come to this school if competitive bowling and a partial scholarship were not part of the package. If these eight women will all go to some other school if bowling and/or discounts aren’t an option at the school in question, then the question becomes—can those eight slots be filled with other paying customers? If the school is trying to grow and doesn’t have eight suitably qualified students (who aren’t already coming to the school anyway) just waiting for a slot to open up, then instead of costing $97,348 to give scholarships, it’s actually costing the school $217,949 NOT to give them.


https://deadspin.com/how-title-ix-actua ... 1704245381






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